Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

[Mennisco]

Rog wrote: remember Boyle ran a 49.7 relay leg without preparation.

When did she do this? I've always thought she'd have won the 400 easily in Mexico, Munich and possibly also Montreal had she been focussed/focused on that event.

[gh]

Re: Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

I would assume that, by 1970, she would have abandoned the 100, although on rare occasions she might still have been capable of running under 11.20 by 1972, but her focus would have turned to the 200 and 400.


i love your fantasy track....but skeeter didn't even like the 200 distance....so, the 4 would not even have been a realistic consideration......

Interesting. I wonder if there was a possibility that her motivation for the 200 might have changed if she had continued to run in 1963.

Why would it? History is full of sprinters who didn't like the 200 all that much, and that feeling was only magnified when they reached the top of the 100 ladder. Instead of saying "I need new worlds to conquer," methinks the mindset is "thank god I don't have to run any of those stupid 200s anymore."

Fans look at it from a "statistical" point of view that athletes themselves rarely do.

[Rog]

Interesting point about Rudolph winning the 400 in Munich, however had she been so imperious over 100 and 200 throughout the 60s she may have driven Szewinska and possibly Boyle to the 400 earlier in their careers. I don't think Rudolph would have beaten either over 400 in Munich - remember Boyle ran a 49.7 relay leg without preparation. Interesting to speculate about though!

[Mennisco]

Not sure how much this demonstrates either way but it's worth pointing out the silver medallist in Rome, Dorothy Hyman, also placed eighth in the Tokyo final.

More relevant is the fact that Wyomia Tyus equalled Wilma Rudolph's (hand-timed ) world record in the heats in Tokyo, so it would be interesting to know the weather conditions for the final. Her 11.23 electronic qualifying time was significantly faster than Rudolph's 11.41 fastest legal time in Rome.

From the Official Report for the 1964 women's 100 final -

Weather - fine; Temp - 20.1 degrees C.; Humidity - 44.0%; Wind - -1.25 mps

Would anyone be interested in doing a comparison of Rudolph's 11.18 and Tyus' 11.23, plus Tyus' 11.08A, factoring in wind, altitude, etc.?

[bambam]

Not sure how much this demonstrates either way but it's worth pointing out the silver medallist in Rome, Dorothy Hyman, also placed eighth in the Tokyo final.

More relevant is the fact that Wyomia Tyus equalled Wilma Rudolph's (hand-timed ) world record in the heats in Tokyo, so it would be interesting to know the weather conditions for the final. Her 11.23 electronic qualifying time was significantly faster than Rudolph's 11.41 fastest legal time in Rome.

From the Official Report for the 1964 women's 100 final -

Weather - fine; Temp - 20.1 degrees C.; Humidity - 44.0%; Wind - -1.25 mps

[CookyMonzta]

Re: Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

I would assume that, by the end of 1970, she would have abandoned the 100, although on rare occasions she might still have been capable of running under 11.20 even in 1972; but her focus would have turned squarely to the 200 and 400.


i love your fantasy track....but skeeter didn't even like the 200 distance....so, the 4 would not even have been a realistic consideration......

Interesting. I wonder if there was a possibility that her motivation for the 200 might have changed if she had continued to run in 1963.

[Mennisco]

More relevant is the fact that Wyomia Tyus equalled Wilma Rudolph's (hand-timed ) world record in the heats in Tokyo, so it would be interesting to know the weather conditions for the final. Her 11.23 electronic qualifying time was significantly faster than Rudolph's 11.41 fastest legal time in Rome.

Rudolph's fastest legal time was hardly her fastest run in Rome. 11.18 with +2.7 is worth ~ 11.28, and she had nobody near her - Hyman second in 11.48.

[tandfman]

I don't know about the weather, but the wind was -1.2 mps in the final.

[dakota]

Not sure how much this demonstrates either way but it's worth pointing out the silver medallist in Rome, Dorothy Hyman, also placed eighth in the Tokyo final.

More relevant is the fact that Wyomia Tyus equalled Wilma Rudolph's (hand-timed ) world record in the heats in Tokyo, so it would be interesting to know the weather conditions for the final. Her 11.23 electronic qualifying time was significantly faster than Rudolph's 11.41 fastest legal time in Rome.

[louise tricard]

Re: Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

I would assume that, by 1970, she would have abandoned the 100, although on rare occasions she might still have been capable of running under 11.20 by 1972, but her focus would have turned to the 200 and 400.


i love your fantasy track....but skeeter didn't even like the 200 distance....so, the 4 would not even have been a realistic consideration......

[Mennisco]

Re: Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

If Wilma had run in 1964, she most certainly would have run hand-timed performances of 11.1 and 22.7 on the Tokyo dirt. The U.S. team would have been good for 43.3-43.5 in the 4x100 relay.

In 1968, on the rubber surface and altitude of Mexico City, she would have easily beaten Marlies Göhr by 9 years to sub-11.00. 10.95 would not have been out of the question for her. In the 200, probably between 22.30 and 22.40. The U.S. would have run between 42.60 and 42.75, easily.

.

They had auto times in Tokyo didn't they? Tyus ran 11.23 in the semis and McGuire ran 23.05 to win the 200 final. The 100 final was a slowish 11.4x into a wind. But Rudolph would have beaten them both.

Interesting point about beating Gohr to the first sub 11, and the musings on a foray into the 400!

[CookyMonzta]

Re: Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

I see her easily repeating her double gold in Tokyo, and changing the outcome of the 4x1 to gold for the US. Again in Mexico City, nobody touches her. Considering that Tyus won in Mexico with 11.08A, and Rudolph won in Rome on dirt in 11.18 [wind +2.7, winning by 0.30], Tyus is no match for Wilma, who by 28 has matured into an even stronger, faster version of her 1960 self. If she had the motivation of today's athletes to go until Munich, certainly medals at both distances, and no worse than silver in 100, probably bronze in 200. Total = 9 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze.

I think I had a response to this in late-2005 (Historical topic, 'Wilma Rudolph Question'). Assuming it has been long-since-erased from this site, I'll repeat it once more; this time, event by event:

If Wilma had run in 1964, she most certainly would have run hand-timed performances of 11.1 and 22.7 on the Tokyo dirt. The U.S. team would have been good for 43.3-43.5 in the 4x100 relay.

In 1968, on the rubber surface and altitude of Mexico City, she would have easily beaten Marlies Göhr by 9 years to sub-11.00. 10.95 would not have been out of the question for her. In the 200, probably between 22.30 and 22.40. The U.S. would have run between 42.60 and 42.75, easily.

I would assume that, by the end of 1970, she would have abandoned the 100, although on rare occasions she might still have been capable of running under 11.20 even in 1972; but her focus would have turned squarely to the 200 and 400. By 1970 (age 30), she'd have had the 200 WR very close to or exactly 22.30, but by age 32 that would have been harder for her to approach. Nevertheless, she'd have been capable of stealing the bronze from Irena Szewinska, who ran 22.74 in Munich. I'd say 22.55-22.65 (Raelene Boyle ran 22.45 for silver).

However, in the 400, with Marilyn Neufville's WR of 51.02 having been snapped by Wilma the year before (I suppose 50.70-50.90), she would have had Monika Zehrt (who ran 51.08 to win) beaten by a good 5 meters, and might have come quite close to breaking 50.00. I'd say 50.25-50.40 for another WR, with perhaps an anchor of 49.5-49.8 to squeeze past the GDR in the 4x400, in WR time. I doubt she would have had the energy to run the 4x100 as well.

She would have retired from serious competition after that, but not before a final campaign in 1973 to break 50.00. She'd have run 50.20, but no faster. Age (33) would have caught up with her.

In the end, she might have had 3 gold medals in the 100, 3 gold and 1 bronze in the 200, 1 gold in the 400, 3 gold in the 4x100 and 1 gold in the 4x400. In all, 11 gold and 1 bronze, with WRs of 10.95A, 22.30 and 50.20 by 1/1/1974. And I do think she would have run 11.00, or even 10.99, at low altitude.

I don't know how many times she would have ranked #1 in the 100 and 200, between 1960 and 1972, but she certainly would have ranked #1 in the 400 three years straight (1971-73).

[louise tricard]

Re: Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

. If she had the motivation of today's athletes to go until Munich, certainly medals at both distances, and no worse than silver in 100, probably bronze in 200. Total = 9 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze.[/quote]

it wasn't motivation then....it was $$$ - none......

you are right...but probably gold all the way......

[Mennisco]

I see her easily repeating her double gold in Tokyo, and changing the outcome of the 4x1 to gold for the US. Again in Mexico City, nobody touches her. Considering that Tyus won in Mexico with 11.08A, and Rudolph won in Rome on dirt in 11.18 [wind +2.7, winning by 0.30], Tyus is no match for Wilma, who by 28 has matured into an even stronger, faster version of her 1960 self. If she had the motivation of today's athletes to go until Munich, certainly medals at both distances, and no worse than silver in 100, probably bronze in 200. Total = 9 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze.