Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

[Mennisco]

On a side note, it seems like the 400 was very much a Cinderella event for the women until the mid-seventies, at which point it became the most exciting discipline of all for about ten years. We're talking about what might have been achieved in the late sixties - I find it astonishing that a time of about 52 seconds was sufficient to win gold at Mexico in 68, on a tartan track at altitude, when the first man was running under 44 seconds. I've seen a recording of that race, and by modern standards they look like they're jogging!

That 52.0 time in Mexico was an European Record and only Sin Kim Dan did better. This event was much younger than male's 400m hence the huge improvement since. Same for distance races. By 1968, it is probable that Szewinska was able to run faster than 52sec IF she had trained for, (her first competiton ever was a 52.0 in 1973), but i doubt Boyle was. Not yet.

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[CookyMonzta]

Do you really think Rudolph would have beaten Stecher in 72? In her career Stecher had a winning streak of 90 wins in the 100/200 and won in Munich in new WRs.

When did Stecher's winning streak start?

1970? Wilma would have beaten her on more occasions in both the 100 and 200, and would have run as fast as 10.8/10.99 and 22.1/22.30.

1971? Wilma would still have been capable of running 10.8/11.0x and 22.1/22.4x, but may have lost a few more races to Stecher in the 100 than usual, with her focus moving toward the 400. But she still would have ranked #1 in both.

1972? Wilma would have been running fewer 100s at this point, and would have had fewer 11.1x clockings this year, but maybe enough to rank #3. Same with the 200, as her fastest time would have come in the Munich final, at around 22.5x. She'd have been concentrating squarely on the 400 by this time.

1973? No 100s or 200s for Wilma. She'd have been in an all-out campaign, at 33, to break 50.00. She might have had company, with Chi Cheng moving up (once again), and Szewinska moving up earlier than she had originally planned.

[Mennisco]

Do you really think Rudolph would have beaten Stecher in 72? In her career Stecher had a winning streak of 90 wins in the 100/200 and won in Munich in new WRs.

Good question. I certainly think if Chi Cheng had remained healthy, Stecher would have had her hands full. And if the lane draws between Boyle and Stecher were reversed [4 v. 6] that stinky little 0.05 would have gone Boyle's way. Of course, we don't need to mention the level playing field, or do we?

[Andrea_T]

Do you really think Rudolph would have beaten Stecher in 72? In her career Stecher had a winning streak of 90 wins in the 100/200 and won in Munich in new WRs.

[CookyMonzta]

Trivia question: Who was the first woman to break 11 seconds, under any conditions? Jon may remember this since I put this out there 3 years ago and nobody got it right. So Jon, can you give others a chance first here, thanks, and don't tell your friends

[Original response written here and erased when I saw the following...]

Nobody should look at any lists either to try this, it's a damn hard question that separates the women from the girls so let's see who can do it on their own. Answer honestly foks, do it without looking. Or fess up if ya did.

Okay. My bad. It was a damn hard question, and I just had to peek. Before I did, I thought Wyomia Tyus had a hand-timed 10.9w in her back pocket before Mexico City. Needless to say, Wilma would have easily run 10.8 with a legal wind at low altitude before then.

I would say Margaret Bailes but i guess there is a trap somewhere...

Excellent PJ!! At age 17, in 1968, she ran 10.8 seconds with wind and altitude. Not many high-schoolers in the world today could duplicate such a feat. Now if SHE had continued until Munich.....what a shame!

My bad, yet again! I always look from the top down, and anything that warrants a response from me, I stop to respond. I simply didn't go down further to see that someone had already spilled the beans.

[gh]

So is there a link with Canadian sprinter Irene Piotrowski? I'm getting lost with that Canadian-Polish connexion...

Can't remember Irene's maiden name at the moment, but she married her coach, Heinz Piotrowski.

[Mennisco]

So is there a link with Canadian sprinter Irene Piotrowski? I'm getting lost with that Canadian-Polish connexion...

:lol: :lol: :lol: Very clever PJ!

[Pierre-Jean]

So is there a link with Canadian sprinter Irene Piotrowski? I'm getting lost with that Canadian-Polish connexion...

[Powell]

My source is Raelene's autobiography - the 72 Olympics was before my time! Didn't Szewinska's Coach, Mach, tell them both in early 74 that they could both break 50?

If you're referring to Gerard Mach, I believe by 1974 he'd been hired by the CTFA [Canada] as National Sprint and Hurdle Coach.

I don't think Mach ever coached Szewinska. For the 1964 OG, Andrzej Piotrowski (who later coached Mexican athletes, including Alejandro Cardenas) was the women's sprint team coach, while Mach coached the men's 400 meter squad. I believe Szewinska went straight from Piotrowski to her future husband's tutelage.

[Athleticsimaging]

Forget Rudolph in '72, Tyus is running on a relay team this year with Cason, Harris and Xuehan and ran 40.27 at the Arizona International. It is the same Tyus, right?

[Novitiate]

Not enough training is the reason why i don't think she was ready to run that fast at 400m. Speed is not enough. Neufville was also 17 years old when she broke the 400m WR but it was her event. Like her, Boyle went early and naturally to the event where she was at ease.

True. If she HAD trained for the 400, hard to say. 3x45 minutes a week might not be enough, but she surely had a full second of ability on the 400 winner at half the distance alone.

[Pierre-Jean]

Not enough training is the reason why i don't think she was ready to run that fast at 400m. Speed is not enough. Neufville was also 17 years old when she broke the 400m WR but it was her event. Like her, Boyle went early and naturally to the event where she was at ease.

[Mennisco]

That 52.0 time in Mexico was an European Record and only Sin Kim Dan did better. This event was much younger than male's 400m hence the huge improvement since. Same for distance races. By 1968, it is probable that Szewinska was able to run faster than 52sec IF she had trained for, (her first competiton ever was a 52.0 in 1973), but i doubt Boyle was. Not yet.

Hmmm. She came out of nowhere and ran 11.20 and 22.74. I'd think she could have run at least 51.9. Anyway, pretty amazing for a still-16 years old girl who only trained 3 times a week, for 45 minutes/session. A mere 2 hours 15 mins. training per week and she wins Olympic silver, and finishes 0.12 behind defending champ Tyus in the 100.

[Pierre-Jean]

On a side note, it seems like the 400 was very much a Cinderella event for the women until the mid-seventies, at which point it became the most exciting discipline of all for about ten years. We're talking about what might have been achieved in the late sixties - I find it astonishing that a time of about 52 seconds was sufficient to win gold at Mexico in 68, on a tartan track at altitude, when the first man was running under 44 seconds. I've seen a recording of that race, and by modern standards they look like they're jogging!

That 52.0 time in Mexico was an European Record and only Sin Kim Dan did better. This event was much younger than male's 400m hence the huge improvement since. Same for distance races. By 1968, it is probable that Szewinska was able to run faster than 52sec IF she had trained for, (her first competiton ever was a 52.0 in 1973), but i doubt Boyle was. Not yet.

[Mennisco]

Rog wrote:

I find it astonishing that a time of about 52 seconds was sufficient to win gold at Mexico in 68, on a tartan track at altitude, when the first man was running under 44 seconds. I've seen a recording of that race, and by modern standards they look like they're jogging!

Szewinska and Boyle would have finished 1-2, running backwards, on their lips.