Thränhardt 2.42 outdoor WR

On 26 February 1988 he set his last indoor world record of 2.42 m in the in the Schöneberger sports hall, which was also as a special case recognised as the outdoor world record. In 1991 it was removed from the outdoor Wo rld Record lists, but it remained in the indoor world record lists (having been beaten by Javier Sotomayor in 1989 with a jump of 2.43 m). However, Thränhardt's mark of 2.42m still stands as the indoor european record.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Thr%C3%A4nhardt

Anybody know why is was regarded an outdoor WR at the time? Indoors is indoors, outdoors is outdoors? What "special case" was this?

[EPelle]

gh can answer that for you:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] ... 14335.html

[Justin Clouder]

In this mark's entry in the 2003 IAAF World Record book, Richard Hymans notes that:

"This was the first indoor mark to be recognised also as an outdoor record. A survey of the high jump area was undertaken at the request of the IAAF and found that all was in order. However, certain observers at the meeting claim that the flexible parquet flooring under the synthetic take-off surface gave the athletes an unfair advantage. In 1991 this mark was deleted as an outdoor record."

It isn't clear whether the record was disallowed because of a rethink on indoor/outdoor record recognition or because of doubts about the surface. Indeed, I always understood that it was the different nature of the under-foot surface indoors which made it impossible to compare indoor and outdoor marks. I am still surprised that the IAAF no longer makes the distinction as regards absolute records - indoor and outdoor high jumping strike me as different enough to warrant different records.

But hey, I'm a sprint nut so I'm WAAAYYY outside my expertise here!

Justin

[tandfman]

I think part of the confusion here arises from terminology. If you look at the IAAF rules (they're on the IAAF web site --you can view or download them), you'll find that there's no such thing as a World Outdoor Record. Actually, I don't think there ever has been. There are World Records and World Indoor Records.

A World Record can now be set indoors (that was not always the case in the past). A World Indoor Record can be set only indoors. Interestingly, USATF does not follow this practice (and I don't think they ever have). They have American Outdoor Records and American Indoor Records, and those must obviously be entirely separate. (The US rules on this are also on the web, on USATF's site).

[midnightsun]

^^ What tandfman said ^^

The rules about World Records were changed a while back (some 6 or 7 years ago, but don't quote me on that).

Yelena Isinbayeva set an World Indoor record in ?2005? that was also a World record.

The rule was not retroactive when it came into effect: Sergey Bubka's Indoor Record is still 1cm greater than his World Record

[gh]

Through 1987 season Rule 148-6 (a) said "The record must be made out of doors and must not have been made on a wooden surface."

With the 1988-89 handbook there are some significant changes, including the introduction of World Junior Records and World Indoor Records.

Rule 148-5 [not 6] (a) now says only "The record must not have been made on a wooden surface."

The Thränhardt mark, as I recall, was a catalyst that led some/many people to say, "oh, that's not what we were voting for," so with the 1990–91 book, 148-6 [yes, back 6] (a) becomes much more precise: "The record must be made in a regular athletics arena. A running track or runway used shall be laid on firm ground without the use of board or similar materials. The record must be made out-of-doors."

1994-95 reads "The record must be made in an athletic arena which conforms to Rule 137 [which talks about acceptable facilities]" and then continues unchanged.

But 1998-99 changes course (BF mine): "World Records shall be made in an athletic arena which conforms to rule 137 with or without roof. A running track or runway used shall be laid on firm ground without the use of sprung sections or similar installations."

With 2000-01, Rule 137 becomes Rule 140, and the WR rules move from 148 to 260.

With 2004-05, 260-6 (a) becomes 260-18 (a)

--
That the Thränhardt mark hasn't been restored to its rightful place is disgraceful, but consistency in the records department has never been the IAAF's strong suit. Note, for example, that at the same time they were expunging Thränhardt they probably should have been chucking Zhu's 2.39 from Eberstadt in '84. That mark would have failed the Rule 137 test in place at the time because it was held in what is essentially a tennis stadium.

And we won't even get into the Bubka situation.

[Dietmar239]

It's funny to me to actually see this post. I actually added a lot of the surrounding information to that Wikipedia entry. The info concerning his jump counting as an outdoor record was not added by me, but it was baffling nonethless.

[gh]

I looked at some Wiki track the other day and was tempted to start diving in, but realized that if I worked full time the rest of my life at it I probably couldn't clean up all the bad information.

[bad hammy]

I looked at some Wiki track the other day and was tempted to start diving in, but realized that if I worked full time the rest of my life at it I probably couldn't clean up all the bad information.

Wiki editing is a task that is easy to burn out on . . .

[gh]

Having said that, I'm perfectly to use Wiki to look up things in a million other areas that aren't t&f and blindly accept at face value!!!!

[bad hammy]

So how often do you check the T&FN entry for vandalism??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_%26_Field_News

[gh]

Not sure I've ever looked at it at all

[tandfman]

I actually added a lot of the surrounding information to that Wikipedia entry.

Is there anyone else who posts on these Boards who also contributes to Wiki?

(I confess that I share gh's and bad hammy's feelings about this. I can imagine fussing over Wiki's T&F stuff and doing nothing else with my life. I admire those who are willing to do this work and am curious to know who they are. But I don't see myself joining their crew any time soon.)

[Dietmar239]

Personally, I've only added a few entries to blatant errors in connection with a few jumpers that I notice. It is definitely not something I have the time to keep up with. However, as stated, there is quite a bit of erroneous information out there. Some athletes, that are former WR holder's have entries that don't even mention these facts or the numerical info is totally off.