Long Jump GOAT [split]

[tandfman]

I don't know how a 400m thread got hijacked by a silly comment by eldrick regarding the LJ, but since we're there, I've got to chime in and say that the notion that Carl is not the GOAT in the LJ is absurd.

[jazzcyclist]

Eldrick,

Who's the long jump GOAT?

[gh]

Let me put my take on the subject this way. In the gh Hall Of Fame (and I think I speak for dj as well), Bob Beamon doesn't make it.

To me, he's Don Larsen; most notable/famous single performance in the history of the sport, but whole body of his work doesn't support it. Larsen is not in the BB HOF.

[bad hammy]

Neither are Johnny Vander Meer, Roger Maris or Denny McClain . . .

[kuha]

It's clear to me that the Mexico City performance actually ensured that Beamon wouldn't have the long-term dedication to ever vie for event GOAT status. After you've won the Olympic gold and blasted the record (nearly) into the next century, what possible motivation do you have to continue to train hard, compete, and (ha!) improve? Precisely none.

Conversely, Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

[bambam]

It's clear to me that the Mexico City performance actually ensured that Beamon wouldn't have the long-term dedication to ever vie for event GOAT status. After you've won the Olympic gold and blasted the record (nearly) into the next century, what possible motivation do you have to continue to train hard, compete, and (ha!) improve? Precisely none.

Conversely, Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

That's really a good point I hadn't really considered much before.

[tafnut]

That's really a good point I hadn't really considered much before.

Doh! Kuha scores one on the OG expert! Nice shot, kuha!

[bad hammy]

It's clear to me that the Mexico City performance actually ensured that Beamon wouldn't have the long-term dedication to ever vie for event GOAT status. After you've won the Olympic gold and blasted the record (nearly) into the next century, what possible motivation do you have to continue to train hard, compete, and (ha!) improve? Precisely none.

Conversely, Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

Oh PLEASE, you guys is killing me!! This is the most overrated mark in T&F history, if not in all of sports! Altitude-aided, wind-aided, storm-wipes-out-the-rest-of-the-competition-aided. That Beamon surpassed himself can be seen by noting that his next best jump in his career measured 27 ft. 4 in., and after the gold medal he never again jumped over 26 ft. 11¾ in.

He is the Roger Maris of T&F . . .

[jazzcyclist]

It's clear to me that the Mexico City performance actually ensured that Beamon wouldn't have the long-term dedication to ever vie for event GOAT status. After you've won the Olympic gold and blasted the record (nearly) into the next century, what possible motivation do you have to continue to train hard, compete, and (ha!) improve? Precisely none.

Conversely, Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

You're not considering the fact that maybe the professionalism of track & field in the late 70's and 80's might have something to do with it. Bob Hayes said that football would have never been in the picture if he had run track during the professional era. Steve Prefontaine lived on welfare after he finished college. Modern track & field athletes have 10-15 year careers, while pre-modern athletes had to leave track to go out and make a living during the Beamon era. Who knows what Beamon would have done if he had come along in the professional era? What would Jesse Owens or Tommie Smith have done if they had come along during the professional era?

[bad hammy]

You're not considering the fact that maybe the professionalism of track & field in the late 70's and 80's might have something to do with it. Bob Hayes said that football would have never been in the picture if he had run track during the professional era. Steve Prefontaine lived on welfare after he finished college. Modern track & field athletes have 10-15 year careers, while pre-modern athletes had to leave track to go out and make a living during the Beamon era. Who knows what Beamon would have done if he had come along in the professional era? What would Jesse Owens or Tommie Smith have done if they had come along during the professional era?

Pre-professional GOATs exist dispite these constraints. Boston is a great example. Maybe not the same longevity as today's stars, but it was possible to stay on/near the top for a number of years.

Beamon was on top for one jump, period . . .

[Per Andersen]

You're not considering the fact that maybe the professionalism of track & field in the late 70's and 80's might have something to do with it. Bob Hayes said that football would have never been in the picture if he had run track during the professional era. Steve Prefontaine lived on welfare after he finished college. Modern track & field athletes have 10-15 year careers, while pre-modern athletes had to leave track to go out and make a living during the Beamon era. Who knows what Beamon would have done if he had come along in the professional era? What would Jesse Owens or Tommie Smith have done if they had come along during the professional era?

Pre-professional GOATs exist dispite these constraints. Boston is a great example. Maybe not the same longevity as today's stars, but it was possible to stay on/near the top for a number of years.

Beamon was on top for one jump, period . . .

Not true, Beamon was by far the best LJer in the world in 1968. He also set an indoor WR, was a clear favorite in Mexico. A WR was pretty much expected of him during 1968. "Only" 27-4? Boston's WR was 27-4 3/4.

Of course Carl is GOAT and Boston and Ter Owanesjan were greater than Beamon. However, there is no need to run Beamon down. A huge LJ talent.

[bad hammy]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

[Per Andersen]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

But much better than you gave him credit for. No clue where you were in '68 but you obviously did not follow LJ.

[tafnut]

He is the Roger Maris of T&F . . .

You disparage Maris. He had to go through an entire season of intense media scrutiny and public hype. His 61* was of a higher caliber than Beamon's jump. The way I view Beamon's jump is that he was a legitimate WR threat, who just happened to jump a foot-and-a-half further than he should have, due to altitude, wind, adrenaline and a serendipitous aligning of the stars in that one moment.

[kuha]

[quote=Per Andersen]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

But much better than you gave him credit for. No clue where you were in '68 but you obviously did not follow LJ.[/quote:hiua3y39]

That was part of my original point. Beamon clearly had enormous ability (duh!) and very well could have ended up as as a consistent 28-footer, '72 champ, etc., EXCEPT for the fact that he got it "all" in one minute in 1968. After that, there was no motivation at all to continue.

And, yes, the professional era makes a difference, but Boston's career is exemplary in that pre-professional period...it WAS possible to be at or near the top of the heap for 6 or 8 years...