Long Jump GOAT [split]

[bad hammy]

[quote=Per Andersen]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

But much better than you gave him credit for. No clue where you were in '68 but you obviously did not follow LJ.[/quote:3iiy98br]
The Mexico City jump was as fraudulent as the new HR record (although with no complicity on Beamon's part, obviously.) I never understood the deification of this jump.

[Daisy]

I agree with Kuha, it's pointless to compare post 1983 athletes with those that went before. The motivations are/were so different. Anyone with the longevity of Oerter in the amateur era is mind boggling whereas now it is more understandable.

Nevertheless, to be at the top of your game for four Olympics, amateur or professional, is still a remarkable feat. It is one thing to have longevity but to the win gold in the same Olympic event four times is stunning. It's hard to argue against such excellence.

[kuha]

Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

And, to his credit, he never tried to do it in Mexico City or anywhere else with comparable altitude. He always said he wanted to do it without the big A.

Exactly. He must have had plenty of such opportunities (Sestriere, etc.) and never bothered to try to get it the "easy" way.

[tandfman]

Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

And, to his credit, he never tried to do it in Mexico City or anywhere else with comparable altitude. He always said he wanted to do it without the big A.

[Dietmar239]

Hands down Lewis is and will always be the long jump GOAT. Don't forget that Lewis is STILL the indoor long jump record holder. A record that has stood for over 23 years and will not be broken in the immediate future. It may not carry the stature of an outdoor mark, but it must count for something. I still feel that arguably his best jump was his record. Outdoor conditioning, a little bit of wind, and less fear of landing on the track and he would have bolted 30'. I don't care what anyone says, that's a jumper right there!

[kuha]

That's really a good point I hadn't really considered much before.

Doh! Kuha scores one on the OG expert! Nice shot, kuha!

Trust me. This falls squarely into the "Even a Blind Hog Finds a Few Acorns" category!

[Kishan Gill]

Lewis was GOAT and you can argue till the cows come home but it isn't going to change that fact. Trust me.! :wink:

[kuha]

[quote=Per Andersen]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

But much better than you gave him credit for. No clue where you were in '68 but you obviously did not follow LJ.[/quote:hiua3y39]

That was part of my original point. Beamon clearly had enormous ability (duh!) and very well could have ended up as as a consistent 28-footer, '72 champ, etc., EXCEPT for the fact that he got it "all" in one minute in 1968. After that, there was no motivation at all to continue.

And, yes, the professional era makes a difference, but Boston's career is exemplary in that pre-professional period...it WAS possible to be at or near the top of the heap for 6 or 8 years...

[tafnut]

He is the Roger Maris of T&F . . .

You disparage Maris. He had to go through an entire season of intense media scrutiny and public hype. His 61* was of a higher caliber than Beamon's jump. The way I view Beamon's jump is that he was a legitimate WR threat, who just happened to jump a foot-and-a-half further than he should have, due to altitude, wind, adrenaline and a serendipitous aligning of the stars in that one moment.

[Per Andersen]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

But much better than you gave him credit for. No clue where you were in '68 but you obviously did not follow LJ.

[bad hammy]

Beamon was world ranked four times:

1966 - 10th
1967 - 4th
1968 - 1st
1969 - 4th

Hardly GOAT-worthy, or even great . . .

[Per Andersen]

You're not considering the fact that maybe the professionalism of track & field in the late 70's and 80's might have something to do with it. Bob Hayes said that football would have never been in the picture if he had run track during the professional era. Steve Prefontaine lived on welfare after he finished college. Modern track & field athletes have 10-15 year careers, while pre-modern athletes had to leave track to go out and make a living during the Beamon era. Who knows what Beamon would have done if he had come along in the professional era? What would Jesse Owens or Tommie Smith have done if they had come along during the professional era?

Pre-professional GOATs exist dispite these constraints. Boston is a great example. Maybe not the same longevity as today's stars, but it was possible to stay on/near the top for a number of years.

Beamon was on top for one jump, period . . .

Not true, Beamon was by far the best LJer in the world in 1968. He also set an indoor WR, was a clear favorite in Mexico. A WR was pretty much expected of him during 1968. "Only" 27-4? Boston's WR was 27-4 3/4.

Of course Carl is GOAT and Boston and Ter Owanesjan were greater than Beamon. However, there is no need to run Beamon down. A huge LJ talent.

[bad hammy]

You're not considering the fact that maybe the professionalism of track & field in the late 70's and 80's might have something to do with it. Bob Hayes said that football would have never been in the picture if he had run track during the professional era. Steve Prefontaine lived on welfare after he finished college. Modern track & field athletes have 10-15 year careers, while pre-modern athletes had to leave track to go out and make a living during the Beamon era. Who knows what Beamon would have done if he had come along in the professional era? What would Jesse Owens or Tommie Smith have done if they had come along during the professional era?

Pre-professional GOATs exist dispite these constraints. Boston is a great example. Maybe not the same longevity as today's stars, but it was possible to stay on/near the top for a number of years.

Beamon was on top for one jump, period . . .

[jazzcyclist]

It's clear to me that the Mexico City performance actually ensured that Beamon wouldn't have the long-term dedication to ever vie for event GOAT status. After you've won the Olympic gold and blasted the record (nearly) into the next century, what possible motivation do you have to continue to train hard, compete, and (ha!) improve? Precisely none.

Conversely, Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

You're not considering the fact that maybe the professionalism of track & field in the late 70's and 80's might have something to do with it. Bob Hayes said that football would have never been in the picture if he had run track during the professional era. Steve Prefontaine lived on welfare after he finished college. Modern track & field athletes have 10-15 year careers, while pre-modern athletes had to leave track to go out and make a living during the Beamon era. Who knows what Beamon would have done if he had come along in the professional era? What would Jesse Owens or Tommie Smith have done if they had come along during the professional era?

[bad hammy]

It's clear to me that the Mexico City performance actually ensured that Beamon wouldn't have the long-term dedication to ever vie for event GOAT status. After you've won the Olympic gold and blasted the record (nearly) into the next century, what possible motivation do you have to continue to train hard, compete, and (ha!) improve? Precisely none.

Conversely, Lewis's overall greatness rests--in some measure--on the fact that he was continually motivated to CHASE that "impossible" mark.

Oh PLEASE, you guys is killing me!! This is the most overrated mark in T&F history, if not in all of sports! Altitude-aided, wind-aided, storm-wipes-out-the-rest-of-the-competition-aided. That Beamon surpassed himself can be seen by noting that his next best jump in his career measured 27 ft. 4 in., and after the gold medal he never again jumped over 26 ft. 11¾ in.

He is the Roger Maris of T&F . . .