Eddie Hart article

[bijanc]

says Tinker handed off to him in Munich w/ a four meter lead:

www.georgethomasclark.com/index.php?id= ... ate=081007

BCB

[RJMB_1]

Slightly ill informed/disingenuous of Hart to make the drug link to Remi Korchemy. He was Borzov's coach as a young school boy (unless he started his athletes on programs early back then)

[paulthefan]

Eddie should have known better than to do that.

[gh]

I'm not sure that anyone has ever produced any evidence confirming that Korchemny worked with Borzov at all. I got the feeling from the get-go that he was a bit of a scammer, and greatly inflated his résumé to get work at this end. He didn't subsequently do his image any upgrade, did he?

[paulthefan]

For the record I submit the obvious: 1) Borzov never looked nearly as impressive as PED users of later ages did in terms of muscle mass and definition. 2) The USSR never produced another like him and they certainly would have if it was all simply pharmacological. 3) His career (and muscle mass) were short lived as one would expect of a 100m dash person (peak 21-24, way pastprime by 26)..

[Rob]

Borzov acknowledges that Korchemny played a minor role in his early years as a sprinter, but from the 1968 European Junior Championships (aged 18) onwards, his primary coach was Dr. Valentin Petrovski. Korchemny exaggerated his connections with Borzov simply to improve his credibility and standing as a coach in the US.

[EPelle]

But one great track stadium does have a story to tell about the greatness of Remi Korchemny. It is Munich's Olympia-Stadion, host of the 1972 Summer Olympic Games and the 2002 European track and field championships. Two athletes, Valery Borzov and Dwain Chambers, are the players. And Korchemny is the link that bonds them.

But it's a complicated link. You first sense it when Korchemny confides to you that he's nervous about being profiled in a track magazine. Not because he might think there isn't all that much to talk about. But Korchemny is afraid that we're going to lionize him for one of the greatest sprint performances of all time - that of the Soviet Union's Borzov, who won Olympic gold in the 100-meter and 200-meter races in 1972, as well as silver in the 4x400-meter relay. They are the victories for which Korchemny is most often credited in the press. And, he says, they are victories for which he is barely responsible. "I was not [Borzov's] main coach," Korchemny told me. Instead, he clarified, he worked with Borzov when he was a junior athlete, before he became an Olympic-caliber sprinter.

http://www.american-trackandfield.com/f ... _remi.html

[EPelle]

Remi wears an entirely genuine air of modesty when discussing Borzov's achievement. "I am happy that Borzov gives me credit, and we remain on very good terms to this day, but..." He smiles again as his voice trails off, and you sense that he sincerely hopes you will set the record straight. "I would say that personally I did not prepare Borzov to win Olympic gold," Remi says. "If people ask me my achievement in working with Borzov, I would say I did not destroy him!"

[tafnut]

"If people ask me my achievement in working with Borzov, I would say I did not destroy him!"[/color]

That's my personal view on coaching. All I have to be is competent and put them in position to use their natural talents. That's why I have so much respect for the truly great coaches who really do push their athletes above and beyond what seems possible. As much as I admire JW's innate talents, I think we all can agree that Coach Hart has him at the peak of his ability potential.

[RJMB_1]

Borzov acknowledges that Korchemny played a minor role in his early years as a sprinter, but from the 1968 European Junior Championships (aged 18) onwards, his primary coach was Dr. Valentin Petrovski. Korchemny exaggerated his connections with Borzov simply to improve his credibility and standing as a coach in the US.

Rob (I think you might have this book, if I recall correctly/~):
The Fastest Men on Earth, by Neil Duncanson, which states that Boris Voitas was his coach prior to Petrovsky, who took charge of him prior to the age of 12. No mention of this other fella (indicating a minor role as you say).

[paulthefan]

As much as I admire JW's innate talents, I think we all can agree that Coach Hart has him at the peak of his ability potential.

not really and conversely If JW were the singularly greatest innate 400m talent that ever lived and Clyde Hart were the singularly greatest 400m coach that ever lived I dont think I would based on that predict or guarantee a 43.5 PR. So very many factors have to also be there to get to that level.

[tafnut]

As much as I admire JW's innate talents, I think we all can agree that Coach Hart has him at the peak of his ability potential.

not really and conversely If JW were the singularly greatest innate 400m talent that ever lived and Clyde Hart were the singularly greatest 400m coach that ever lived I dont think I would based on that predict or guarantee a 43.5 PR. So very many factors have to also be there to get to that level.

Does that even make sense? If you took the greatest coach and put him together with the greatest talent, he WOULDN'T be close to the WR? 'Splain please.

[paulthefan]

Does that even make sense? If you took the greatest coach and put him together with the greatest talent, he WOULDN'T be close to the WR? 'Splain please.

There is more to getting a WR than having the greatest physical talent and having the best coach. There are so many other variables (psychological, subtle matching factors between coach and athlete) and so much randomness too. I would imagine that there are probably 2 or 3 NFL WR types that have the raw talent to go sub 44 in the 400 ( I watched Ted Ginn Jr. the other night and said wow he is certainly one) . Put them under coach Hart for 5 years at age 20 and maybe 1/2 of them have the other attributes to get there so you probably have a 50/50 chance of doing that. Now things get even harder and more things must align when you start talking about a WR time. JW is still .3 off of that.

and I still think JW is not doing everything right, he looks way too skinny to me. Add 5 or 10bls of muscle to his frame and he could really benefit. But paulthefan cant argue with Coach Hart.

[eldrick]

gotta go with pauly

even if you are greatest coach in the world, you still don't know everything ( no one does ) - the slightly missing gap in your knowledge/management/etc may be missing link that prevents the world's greatest talent getting the wr

maybe look at geb - many consider him the greatest distance runner in history & dr meske his coach, maybe greatest distance coach in world, but he still coudn't geb to break the 3k wr, when he had comparable 1500 speed to komen ( 3'31i = ~ 3'29 outdoors ) & slightly superior 5k endurance

too many variables...

[Rob]

Borzov acknowledges that Korchemny played a minor role in his early years as a sprinter, but from the 1968 European Junior Championships (aged 18) onwards, his primary coach was Dr. Valentin Petrovski. Korchemny exaggerated his connections with Borzov simply to improve his credibility and standing as a coach in the US.

Rob (I think you might have this book, if I recall correctly/~),
The Fastest Men on Earth, by Neil Duncanson, states that Boris Voitas was his coach prior to Petrovsky, and that he took charge of him prior to the age of 12. No mention of this other fella (indicating a minor role as you say).

Yes, agreed. Borzov only had 2 primary coaches throughout his career - initially Voitas and then Petrovski. Obviously he was surrounded by a large number of support staff and scientists, which only increased from the late 60s onwards. As far as I can establish, Korchemny had a peripheral involvement in Borzov's basic conditioning, in the 66 - 68 timeframe. From the Athens Europeans in 1969 he was certainly no longer on the scene vis-a-vis Borzov's coaching staff.