Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ryun's training?

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Ryun's training?

    Was Munich a synthetic track? Mexico City? Which was the first Olympics on non-cinder?

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Ryun's training?

      Mexico was the first OG on a synthetic track. And Ryun's 3:33.1 WAS a mind-blower. He demolished a record (Elliott's 3:35.6) that itself was considered amazing, after a 61-ish first lap on a dusty track on an oppressively hot day. Keino does, of course, deserve credit for pushing the pace in the middle of the race, but it was Ryun who made history.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Ryun's training?

        My two cents:

        Conor Dary: I believe it was Todd Scully, not Ron Laird, who wore Hush Puppies.

        Kuha1: I think the Track Public remembers Ryun's fall. I don't thing the General Public remembers that at all. the General Public remembers 1966-67, and the silver medal in '68.

        I doubt he would have beaten Vasala in '72. Ryun won the Oly Trials in a slow 3:41.5, but one week earlier had finished only 4th in the 800, albeit in a reasonably fast 1:45.2. Still, Vasala had a 1:44.5 that year, and a tremendous acceleration. The Ryun of five years earlier could/would have won, but not the Ryun of the last two years.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Ryun's training?

          DJ, thanks for the correction. You're right it was Todd Scully and his famous Hush Puppies.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Ryun's training?

            You may well be right, but I suspect you give the General Public more credit than it deserves. Re: the Munich final, it would have been a different race if Ryun had been in it--probably a faster pace overall, which Vasala may or may not have used to his advantage. What is life without the "what ifs"????

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Ryun's training?

              What happened to Vasala after Munich? Why was he not at the top longer?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Ryun's training?

                >. . .I suspect you give the General Public more credit than it deserves. Re: the Munich final, it would have been a different race if
                >Ryun had been in it--probably a faster pace overall, which Vasala may or may
                >not have used to his advantage. What is life without the "what ifs"????

                I don't think I'm giving the General Public too much credit, theyr'e the ones who remember the good stuff. It's the Track Public that remembers the '72 fall.

                I doubt the '72 final would have been faster with Ryun in the race. He wasn't faster than Vasala that year. And after '67 I don't think we saw Ryun taking the pace until the end. If people weren't trying to get away from Vasala, I don't know that they would have feared Ryun any more.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Ryun's training?

                  If I remember correctly from a tape I saw fairly recently of the ABC coverage of the '72 1500 final, Liquori comments that without Ryun in the final Keino may let it go too slow from the start. Which is what he did, running 1:59 for the first 800. At that point Liquori says (to paraphrase) it's too late for Keino and Vasala had the race in hand.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Ryun's training?

                    Ryun's 4th in the 800 trials was due more to his not having run many 800's (if any at all) leading up to the trials that year. That he was in better shape by the time Munich rolled around is no question. He ran back to back 800's in 1:51 each (w/3 min. rest between) With that kind of form, he would probably have beaten Vasala. Ryun would have started moving a lot earlier than the final homestretch, which is what Vasala did. It's doubtful Vasala could have a run as fast over the last 200 or 300 as Ryun. The Ryun of '67 would have won easily in '72 of course. Besides his 3:33.1 being run with a last 1200 of 2:46, the track temperature must have been murder. The air temperature was 97 degrees, with L.A. smog to boot.

                    Keino's altitude run in Mexico was amazing, but he was also born and raised at a higher altitude. The altitude would have much less effect on a guy like Keino than it would on Ryun or other sea level runners. Ryun running 3:37 is possibly more amazing than Keino running 3:34 - and Ryun let up in the homestretch when he realized he was too far back to catch Keino.

                    El G could break 3:50 on dirt. No doubt about it. It's more interesting to specualate on what Ryun would have run with sensible training - or with today's training and facilities, etc. Like Kenny Moore said, Ryun was "... freakish in his ability to withstand such harsh anaerobic punishment."

                    Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how good Ryun might have been in the 800 had he concentrated on that, rather than the mile? His WR 880 was set with negative splits (53.3, 51.6) and it was his second race in 90 minutes (an earlier heat in 1:50).

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Ryun's training?

                      The title of this thread could be "Let Us Now Praise Famous Men." Ryun was an astonishing talent who electrified the American track world. He ran brilliantly in his world records, and he ran courageously (and faster than many experts thought possible at that altitude) in Mexico City. However, somehow, Keino pulled an all-time PR out of his hat on that day to run a time that really shouldn't, "couldn't," have been possible. In Munich, Ryun had horrible luck--running in a heat that he shouldn't have been in. (He had run a relatively easy 3:52.8 mile in late July that year in Toronto, the 3rd fastest in history; a time mistakenly interpreted as a 1500 mark in his Munich heat seeding.) He came into that Olympics having won a tactical US trials race with a blazing 51-something last lap. This HAD to have been a concern to Vasala and everyone else in the field. This may not have been the Ryun of 1967, but it was clearly a Jim Ryun with enormous ability and a deep desire to win. The rest of the field had much to worry about with him in the final. Without him, the final became a safer--and vastly less interesting--tactical affair. As to what he might have done if he had focused on the 800--1:43 flat?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Ryun's training?

                        Addendum, in partial response to DJ above. Vasala's 800 seasonal best at the time of the Games appears to have been 1:46.0, and it's interesting to see that, of T&FN's 6 experts, 5 picked Ryun to win in Munich, with one picking Keino. Vasala was voted 3rd by this group.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Ryun's training?

                          Let me clarify the Vasala situation a bit. In late July he went from being a minor player on the world scene (800 PR somewhere slower than 1:47.5, 1500 PR of 3:38.6) to major stud, running 1:46.0 NR and 3:36.8 a week apart. Yes, T&FN consensus was him for 3rd, but you have to know that the picks in that Olympic Preview (the first I ever worked on) were made some 3 weeks before the Games.

                          I remember we worked about 150 hours over the course of a 2-week period to get that Preview out the door and when we did we were convinced it was the most all-inclusive Preview ever produced and we headed off for Europe. Got to Paris, went to the Gare du Nord to catch a train and picked up the latest copy of L'Équipe for reading material. There, on the front page, in screaming 60-point type it said Vasala 1:44.5! (on August 20, in the dual w/ Sweden)

                          I felt my proverbial life passing before my eyes. We had labored so long and hard for perfection and within a week the picks in one of the primo events were now seriously flawed. Given the knowledge of the 1:44.5, I suspect our panel would have about split on Ryun and Vasala, or perhaps given slight edge to Ryun. But Vasala would have been ahead of Keino I suspect. TMI, I';m sure.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Ryun's training?

                            It would be interesting to know what Keino was thinking of Vasala just prior to Munich. But then again what more could Keino have done in the final to win? Run 1:56 for the first 800? I am not so sure now that Ryun would have been mentally up for that and Vasala still would have won.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X