'80 Olympic cheating

[gh]

A little easier to understand Ashford's behavior - she was losing to athletes that she felt doped. Hard to be gracious under those circumstances.

Ashford was so talented wasnt she, running 10.76.

Funny that only 4 women have beaten that time since, one dying suspiciously young, her best coming in a season where she was alleged to have obtained HGH (by a european newspaper & an american athlete); one now a proven dope cheat; one who failed a test but got let off on a technicality and the other benefitting from a gale...

24 yrs later and she's still number 5 on the world lists....hmmmm....

:roll:

Stephen, enjoy your vacation. See you in September.

[Mennisco]

So what are you saying, that Kornelia Ender is a man? OMG! I see what you did there - all hail the comedy genius!

I held an Oscar once - actually two Oscars, one at a time. One had something to do with a brilliant comedian, who shall renain unmamed.

[Rog]

Ashford refused to attend the medal presentation, and she made a number of comments about Flo Jo in 88 when she was constantly playing second fiddle. Again, when Brisco beat her over 200 in 86 the defeat was a result of her being too tired, rather than someone else just running quicker.

... I remember reading a comment by the great swimmer Kornelia Ender who said that the sports system she had grown up in had taught her how to behave in a sportsmanlike manner,....

Nothing sportsmanlike about Kornelia and the [other] PretEnders.....on second thought, perhaps "sportswomanlike" works better...

So what are you saying, that Kornelia Ender is a man? OMG! I see what you did there - all hail the comedy genius!

[Mennisco]

Ashford refused to attend the medal presentation, and she made a number of comments about Flo Jo in 88 when she was constantly playing second fiddle. Again, when Brisco beat her over 200 in 86 the defeat was a result of her being too tired, rather than someone else just running quicker.

... I remember reading a comment by the great swimmer Kornelia Ender who said that the sports system she had grown up in had taught her how to behave in a sportsmanlike manner,....

Nothing sportsmanlike about Kornelia and the [other] PretEnders.....on second thought, perhaps "sportswomanlike" works better...

[Stephen]

A little easier to understand Ashford's behavior - she was losing to athletes that she felt doped. Hard to be gracious under those circumstances.

Ashford was so talented wasnt she, running 10.76.

Funny that only 4 women have beaten that time since, one dying suspiciously young, her best coming in a season where she was alleged to have obtained HGH (by a european newspaper & an american athlete); one now a proven dope cheat; one who failed a test but got let off on a technicality and the other benefitting from a gale...

24 yrs later and she's still number 5 on the world lists....hmmmm....

:roll:

[Vault-emort]

And who can forget 1908, when the Brits disqualified all the Americans in the 400, so their guy could win.

The judges were looking out for any infringements in 1908 because Australian Nigel Barker had been 'blatantly fouled' in the 1906 400m and the judges were over-keen to stop any further occurences. In 1906 Halswelle had finished second to Pilgrim USA with Barker third.

[parkerrclay]

A little easier to understand Ashford's behavior - she was losing to athletes that she felt doped. Hard to be gracious under those circumstances.

[Rog]

One interesting element of the GDR athletes from that era. They won a lot, but when they did lose, they did so very graciously (Koch v Szewinska in '77, Göhr vs Ashford in Zurich '84, Ackermann vs Simeoni in the '78 Europeans). I don't see that so much among the top Americans - look at Richards and Felix when they've just finished their races against each other

This was something I noticed as a kid in the UK. Apart from Steve Ovett, our top athletes did not handle defeat well, but GDR athletes always seemed to react graciously, which was an interesting contrast if nothing else. After the 83 W Ch 100 final, where Ashford failed to finish, Gohr said of her "Ashford is the best runner in the world" - despite having just won the world title herself. Koch expressed her sympathies as well. In fact I don't remember Ashford ever taking defeat well - after losing the 83 GDR V USA 100 to Gohr, Ashford refused to attend the medal presentation, and she made a number of comments about Flo Jo in 88 when she was constantly playing second fiddle. Again, when Brisco beat her over 200 in 86 the defeat was a result of her being too tired, rather than someone else just running quicker.

Obviously it's not easy for any athlete to accept defeat, but I remember reading a comment by the great swimmer Kornelia Ender who said that the sports system she had grown up in had taught her how to behave in a sportsmanlike manner, and to accept defeat graciously so as not to detract from the satisfaction of the winner. Contrast that to the story about the Ethiopian athletes trying to kill each other however!

[rhymans]

Rob certainly has a point about Göhr. Video of the race shows her to be out slower than her teammate Müller, who was in the lane next to her. On the other side of the equation, Kondratyeva, who won, was injured in the last 20m - an area where she was probably stronger than Göhr normally. The inury ws sufficient to keep her out of the 200 and 400 relay

One interesting element of the GDR athletes from that era. They won a lot, but when they did lose, they did so very graciously (Koch v Szewinska in '77, Göhr vs Ashford in Zurich '84, Ackermann vs Simeoni in the '78 Europeans). I don't see that so much among the top Americans - look at Richards and Felix when they've just finished their races against each other

[TrackCEO]

It will be hard for them to anything like this. There will be camera's everywhere.

Cameras abounded at Moscow, too.

The picture of the Games was taken by Rich Clarkson of Sports Illustrated. I don't know if it's online, but here's a similar shot (or maybe it's the one used in SI):



Video of WK's jump is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZFv3JDJwks

More on "the gesture":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82ady ... ozakiewicz

The official response of the Polish government was that the gesture was an involuntary muscle spasm caused by his exertion.

K E N

[exphysrunner]

"Well, you have to remember two things about the Russians.

He seems to have some obsession with the presence of the USSR soldiers, who were there simply to ensure security and to prevent any repeat of Munich. Pity the same level of security wasn't achieved in Atlanta.

Of course they cheated, but to hark on about it 28 years later, it must be a slow news day amongst the American Statesman readership.

In any event, my recollections of Moscow are that it was one of the better Olympics in the last 40 years.

Atlanta's bombing took place at a public park. Would you really want that level of military presence? Sorry, but I am not interested in living in a police state. Do you really think the Soviets were interested in "security"? It was an oppressive regime that had a horrible human rights record.

Yeah an Olympics that are boycotted have to be considered tainted (and that goes for 1984).

[Rob]

Although the number of countries that boycotted Moscow was greater than in LA, the number of Nations in the 1980 boycott with any T&F 'pedigree' was relatively low (USA, FRG, Canada & Kenya being the primary absentees). I would say the Eastern Bloc boycott in 84 had a more dramatic effect, as far as impacting standards was concerned.

In other words, purely in terms of T&F prowess, the following equation applied in the 1980s:

USA + FRG + Canada + Kenya < USSR + GDR

In any event, the irony (and futility) of the associated justification, being that "Country 'x' has invaded Afghanistan, so country 'y' is not going to the Olympics" is surely not lost on anyone here...?

[Mennisco]

I wonder what the Chinese will come up with?

[Powell]

Wasn't Saneyev from Estonia which was a part of the Soviet Union before breaking away?

It's possible Russian bias being what it is (espcecially to folks who weren't from Rodina), folks may not have wanted Saneyev to win despite his being a part of the Soviet machine.

No, Saneyev was from Georgia. It was the gold medalist Jaak Uudmae who was Estonian.

[ndamix]

"Well, you have to remember two things about the Russians. They are very patriotic, and very stupid."

That sentiment could just as well apply to another large super power...

In the TJ, the athlete I feel most sorry for was Saneyev, who should have won it and thereby equalled Oerter's 4 golds - and he was a Soviet.

And would the US 'reporter' have been any happier if the GDR had won both the 4x400 relays, instead of the USSR?

I'm surprised he didn't mention Göhr's 'frictionless blocks', which gave the USSR the women's 100m as well.

He seems to have some obsession with the presence of the USSR soldiers, who were there simply to ensure security and to prevent any repeat of Munich. Pity the same level of security wasn't achieved in Atlanta.

Of course they cheated, but to hark on about it 28 years later, it must be a slow news day amongst the American Statesman readership.

Or maybe an underhand way of drawing attention to what might happen in Beijing?

In any event, my recollections of Moscow are that it was one of the better Olympics in the last 40 years.

Wasn't Saneyev from Estonia which was a part of the Soviet Union before breaking away?

It's possible Russian bias being what it is (espcecially to folks who weren't from Rodina), folks may not have wanted Saneyev to win despite his being a part of the Soviet machine.