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  • eldrick
    replied
    we'll never know, but this guy used to run 3'26/3'27 week in/week out on the circuit

    if you can run 3'26/3'27 one day & do it again 1/52 later, it means his recuperative powers were bordering on the incredible

    somehow, if that 3'26/3'27 in 1/52 time was substituted for 2 prelims of 1'46 & 1'45 followed by a low-1'43 final, i think that woud take no more out of him than a 3'26/3'27

    the 5k prelim woud have to be treated as a training jog with a last lap sprint

    Leave a comment:


  • croflash
    replied
    Originally posted by eldrick
    Originally posted by catson52
    Who would one rate as best 800/1500/5000 person of all time? Aouita?
    in hindsight, hicham couda done it in '00 if timetable allowed it & he hadn't messed up the 1500

    he couda outkicked wolde on one leg in the final & the german in the 800 was only a 1'44-guy - hicham musta been close to 1'43-flat shape that meet

    to be honest, he couda also done the treble in '04 - borza's win wasn't awe-inspiring & it wouda been just a question of unleashing his kick at the right time

    imagine back to back 800/1500/5k trebles !!! :shock:
    Too many would & coulda for my taste. Even if he tried to compete in all three races there is no way he would still be a hundred percent or at this best during the last event. You can't fully recover from seven or eight rounds in ten days even if you don't have to spend much energy in the heats.

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Originally posted by catson52
    Who would one rate as best 800/1500/5000 person of all time? Aouita?
    in hindsight, hicham couda done it in '00 if timetable allowed it & he hadn't messed up the 1500

    he couda outkicked wolde on one leg in the final & the german in the 800 was only a 1'44-guy - hicham musta been close to 1'43-flat shape that meet

    to be honest, he couda also done the treble in '04 - borza's win wasn't awe-inspiring & it wouda been just a question of unleashing his kick at the right time

    imagine back to back 800/1500/5k trebles !!! :shock:

    Leave a comment:


  • catson52
    replied
    Originally posted by imaginative
    Doing something unique is a very strong pro-argument---and I should certainly
    have said ``necessary criterion'' above. As is, I miss the point I was trying
    to make, namely that a 400m WR, three straight Olympic titles in the 100m, a
    title repeat in the 200m, or something else previously unaccomplished, is not
    _necessary_ to become GOAT. Achieving something new on this scale will
    definitely help, however.

    Sorry about the unfortunate formulation.

    BTW, I suspect that the 800/1500/5000 combination would be the most magical
    of the three.
    Who would one rate as best 800/1500/5000 person of all time? Aouita?

    Leave a comment:


  • sprintblox
    replied
    Any one of the following on top of what he's already done = GOAT:

    Sub 9.6 = GOAT
    Sub 19.1 = GOAT
    Repeat the 100/200 double in London = GOAT
    Threepeat the 100 or 200 Olympic gold = GOAT
    400m gold in London = GOAT
    400m WR = GOAT

    Leave a comment:


  • imaginative
    replied
    Doing something unique is a very strong pro-argument---and I should certainly
    have said ``necessary criterion'' above. As is, I miss the point I was trying
    to make, namely that a 400m WR, three straight Olympic titles in the 100m, a
    title repeat in the 200m, or something else previously unaccomplished, is not
    _necessary_ to become GOAT. Achieving something new on this scale will
    definitely help, however.

    Sorry about the unfortunate formulation.

    BTW, I suspect that the 800/1500/5000 combination would be the most magical
    of the three.

    Leave a comment:


  • FrankS
    replied
    However, to be the first to achieve something is important. Zatopeks main claim to fame is surely based on is unique 5k/10k/marathon effort. The fact that no athlete has ever(?) held the 100m/200m/400m record simultaneously will ensure that the first athlete to do it will indeed be hard to ignore as the greatest. What else would be comparable? 800m/1500m/5000m? 5k/10k/marathon. Of course, Geb has held all of the last three but not at the same time, and I think most fans think that it is achieveable but .... the 100m/200m/400m. That would be magic!!

    Leave a comment:


  • imaginative
    replied
    Originally posted by FrankS
    As I've said previously, simply(!) winning more medals and setting fastest times at 100 and 200m won't do the trick; he's got to go for the 400m. Of course, going for the 400m is a gamble and it also means a lot of hard work. Lasse Viren did the "double double" in the 5k/10k but that didn't elevate him to the top of the greatest runner of all-time table BUT, had he won the marathon in 1976, then his claim for the greatest of all-time would have been greatly enhanced. To jump over all the other contenders Usain must do something unique, and 400m offers him that.
    I do not see uniqueness as a GOAT criterion in general: Merely duplicating
    what the previous GOAT did, but slightly better, would be enough---as would a
    number of equivalent variations. If each new GOAT must do something unique,
    runners of old would have an unfair advantage.

    One might even argue that the need for something unique should be reduced
    over time, due to increasing competition, lesser chance at doubling
    succesfully, etc. I would, for instance, say that Lewis' 1988 and Bolt's 2008
    medal sets were superior to Owens' in 1936---with Lewis' 1984 far ahead of
    Owens, although nominally the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    yes, that's why i'd suggested he'd run it hard to the line with good RT - that buries it at ~ 9.60

    9.69 is doable by safa - his anchor was ~ 9.73 ability with likely little wind ( his 9.74 had big wind & he was slowing down - worth ~ 9.78 basic if he'd run it flat-out - i think safa's ~ 0.05s better from last year, so still improving )

    Leave a comment:


  • MDelano
    replied
    First thing would be to cement the WR in the 100m for a considerable amount of time by running some truly ridiculous number. 9.69 as it stands now could be broken by somebody else sooner than we may think, Powell is already fairly close.

    I don't think just breaking 44 sec in the 400m will have a major impact on his status. He would have to be number 1 in this event like Owens and Lewis were in the long jump.

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    bolt's performances show that longevity is over-rated as criteria for goat ( longeviy good for a gold watch at the end )

    he can retire today & who's going to argue he's not the goat ( albeit i wished he'd got a good RT in 100 & run thru the line for a 9.60 & also good RT & no -ve wind in 200 for a 19.20 - double golds in 9.60/19.20 - pretty much end of story as far as i'm concerned )

    Leave a comment:


  • FrankS
    replied
    As I've said previously, simply(!) winning more medals and setting fastest times at 100 and 200m won't do the trick; he's got to go for the 400m. Of course, going for the 400m is a gamble and it also means a lot of hard work. Lasse Viren did the "double double" in the 5k/10k but that didn't elevate him to the top of the greatest runner of all-time table BUT, had he won the marathon in 1976, then his claim for the greatest of all-time would have been greatly enhanced. To jump over all the other contenders Usain must do something unique, and 400m offers him that.

    Leave a comment:


  • AS
    replied
    I would say a sub-44s 400m would help his cause considerably. Another season like this would boost his stocks :

    1 sub-9.7
    3 sub-9.8
    6 sub-9.9
    8 sub-10
    1 sub-19.4
    4 sub-19.9
    (with a bit of racing to come)

    If he doubled again in London in 2012 then he's home in my books... not getting that far (i.e. only doing the double in 2009 and 2011) might leave him only on par with Lewis and M.Johnson...

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave
    replied
    He needs to stay healthy and maintain his level of fitness. He just needs to keep doing what he has been doing. Three gold medals and three world records is an amazing start to his case of being the greatest of all time.

    A 44ish 400 wouldn't hurt either.

    Leave a comment:


  • imaginative
    replied
    Originally posted by noone
    1)He must show dominance over a much longer period of time. The reason I consider Carl Lewis the greatest is because he maintained his peak for 15 years.

    2)It would help if he had great success in the 400. Part of Lewis' and Owens' mystique comes from their LJ performances.

    3)This may be unfair and irrelevant, but it would certainly help if he were more humble.
    1. Even stretching it, it is hard to make his sprint reign last for more
    than 10 years (1981-1991). Further, many would argue that his actual peak was
    not maintained longer than the 1984 resp. 1988 Olympics. (Not to deny that
    he had incredible longevity for a sprinter.)

    2. Very true.

    3. Lewis, Greene, and a few others were not exactly modest and down-to-earth
    either.

    Leave a comment:

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