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  • Diego Sahagún
    replied
    Originally posted by EPelle
    For general viewingI: Holm scissoring 2.10m:
    http://youtubeochjag.wordpress.com/2008 ... saxar-210/
    Gracias EPelle.

    Have you seen this :?:

    http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=jHCCfXeAD84

    Leave a comment:


  • Diego Sahagún
    replied
    Originally posted by bambam1729
    Originally posted by Diego Sahagún
    I vote for the shorts: Austin, Conway, Holm, Matei.. :wink: I know there are shortest but I like those...

    Aside his doping caughts I see Soto as one of the best HJers ever. I've couldn't see Brumel.

    As for the women, Kostadinova and Balas were great
    Well, if you couldn't see Brumel and thus rank him, how do you then rank Balas, who goes back even further? But those two are the HJ GOATs to me. Although Kostadinova was quite good.
    Because I've heard extraordinary things by her, I've also studied her field life

    Leave a comment:


  • mrbowie
    replied
    I watched the clip. I still don't believe it.

    Leave a comment:


  • rumbleyoungmanrumble
    replied
    Originally posted by EPelle
    For general viewingI: Holm scissoring 2.10m:
    http://youtubeochjag.wordpress.com/2008 ... saxar-210/
    That is amazing. Even more so for a short guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • paulthefan
    replied
    for a guy with a 30" inseam, that is freakish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Per Andersen
    replied
    Originally posted by EPelle
    For general viewingI: Holm scissoring 2.10m:
    http://youtubeochjag.wordpress.com/2008 ... saxar-210/
    Holm's scissoring technique here is actually quite advanced.
    Note the landing on both feet + he is tilting his body sideways and toward the bar.
    This is a more efficient clearance than in the scissoring technique of most jumpers.

    He is approaching an Eastern Cut-off technique.
    So, it's possible that part of Holm's scissoring improvement was due to his gradual improvement of the scissoring technique.
    In earlier years he used to say that he could gauge how well he would do in a comp. by how high he could scissor in warm-ups. More recently he no longer feels this is true.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrbowie
    replied
    Originally posted by Marlow
    Originally posted by dj
    I remember Rolf Beilschmidt warming up for the 1979 World Cup and clearing 2.15 with a scissors.
    A 7' scissors clearance - wow! A couple of years back at a big HS invitational down here, a boy with a PR over 7' was being the typical adolescent show-off. As the other top boys were going out at 6'4 and 6'6, he would scissor the heights with his warm-ups on (despite it being a warm day). He was the only jumper at 6'8 and he took off the sweat top, but kept on the sweat pants and scissored the height again! At 6'10 he took off the sweat pants and tried to scissor it. Not close. This seemed to embarrass him, so he tried to scissor again and failed again (Casey at the Bat much?). On his final attempt he tried to flop, but ended up half flopping, half scissoring and missed again. Maybe he learned a lesson that day. Or not. He was a phenomenal talent that I never heard from again.
    For an old fart, I am amazed that you remember so much of this dream. What in the hell did you eat before you went to bed? Nuts?

    Leave a comment:


  • Per Andersen
    replied
    Balas did not jump the simple scissor version we see during warm-ups today.

    She used the Eastern Cut-off in a not very efficient way. The Eastern was a further development of the Scissor. Sweeney jumped this way before the turn of the 20th century. The technique was much more efficient than the Scissor. The body was not upright but tilted backward and out towards the take-off.
    It was a complicated technique and hard to learn but the Euro record of Kotkas lasted until 1954. (set with this technique)
    The scissor and the Cut-off are related and the Western Roll and the straddle are related.

    I would imagine it would be possible to go well over 2.20 with the Eastern Cut-off and maybe 2.25 with the Western Roll.

    Of course today the only other technique that makes sense other than the flop is the simple upright scissor for warm ups and drills.

    I would think Balas could learn the flop since she already took off on the outside foot. Well over 2m would likely have been the result.

    Leave a comment:


  • mump boy
    replied
    Originally posted by marknhj
    The most impressive were Sjoberg and Thranhardt who used to scissor around 2.10m warming up. Holm's scissors pb was 2.12m (I think) and he once said he thought 30cms was a good guesstimate of the scissors/flop differential.

    (btw - tall guys are obviously at an advantage with the scissors, so Holm doing 2.12m is remarkable)
    so even if we conservatively give women 20cm it means that Balas jumps 2.11 and according to Eldricks calculations she becomes the undisputed GOAT :-)

    you happy now Eldy :P

    Leave a comment:


  • marknhj
    replied
    Originally posted by dj
    Here's a question for Mark, if he's following this discussion.

    I remember Rolf Beilschmidt warming up for the 1979 World Cup and clearing 2.15 with a scissors. But I was far away, and it happened so quickly while I wasn't playing close attention, that I couldn't believe my eyes.

    Did you ever see Beilschmidt warm up in this fashion? And if so, do you recall the highest bar he cleared?
    I competed against Beilschmidt a bunch of times but can't remember seeing him do the scissors in warm up. Of course, that doesn't imply he didn't. My overriding memory of Rolf was watching him walk around on crutches after the Euro Final in Prague, 1978.

    The most impressive were Sjoberg and Thranhardt who used to scissor around 2.10m warming up. Holm's scissors pb was 2.12m (I think) and he once said he thought 30cms was a good guesstimate of the scissors/flop differential.

    (btw - tall guys are obviously at an advantage with the scissors, so Holm doing 2.12m is remarkable)

    Leave a comment:


  • Marlow
    replied
    Originally posted by dj
    I remember Rolf Beilschmidt warming up for the 1979 World Cup and clearing 2.15 with a scissors.
    A 7' scissors clearance - wow! A couple of years back at a big HS invitational down here, a boy with a PR over 7' was being the typical adolescent show-off. As the other top boys were going out at 6'4 and 6'6, he would scissor the heights with his warm-ups on (despite it being a warm day). He was the only jumper at 6'8 and he took off the sweat top, but kept on the sweat pants and scissored the height again! At 6'10 he took off the sweat pants and tried to scissor it. Not close. This seemed to embarrass him, so he tried to scissor again and failed again (Casey at the Bat much?). On his final attempt he tried to flop, but ended up half flopping, half scissoring and missed again. Maybe he learned a lesson that day. Or not. He was a phenomenal talent that I never heard from again.

    Leave a comment:


  • dj
    replied
    Here's a question for Mark, if he's following this discussion.

    I remember Rolf Beilschmidt warming up for the 1979 World Cup and clearing 2.15 with a scissors. But I was far away, and it happened so quickly while I wasn't playing close attention, that I couldn't believe my eyes.

    Did you ever see Beilschmidt warm up in this fashion? And if so, do you recall the highest bar he cleared?

    Leave a comment:


  • dj
    replied
    Originally posted by eldrick
    wiki quotes balas as

    Her technique was a sophisticated version of the scissors technique
    which i'd assume was more akin to a straddle than a basic scissor - if soto was going to try a scissor, i'd suggest he'd have also gone for this sophisticated version
    I think her "sophisticated scissors" was probably closer to a Western roll than a straddle.

    Leave a comment:


  • mump boy
    replied
    Originally posted by croflash
    Originally posted by mump boy
    Originally posted by croflash
    Sorry, but if someone has tested positive twice, all of his credibility is gone.
    agreed but cocaine and nadrolone are hardly THG
    Also agreed, at least cocaine.
    nadrolona is obviously just as bad as any other steroid but there were so many strange results from it that there is asways an * against any + in my head.

    as for Eldy (i'm not sure why i bother) but you have the most bizaar way of looking at stuff. Balas didn;t compete today so it is impossible to compare. who knows what she could have done, with modern training, money, tracks, techniques. what you think she possibly could have jumped means absolutely nothing.the stats are very clear

    balas was world #1 for 9 straight years at a time when female athletes often only competed for a couple of years she took the WR up from 1.74-1.91 !!! and was unbeaten from 1957-1967 winning 140 comps and 2 OG

    Stefka i a clear second and her WR is amaaaazing (he has the best HJ technique of anyone i have ever seen) but she was only completely dominant for 4 years and in that time she managed to lose the OG in 88 after that she went off the boil for years untill coming back to top form. you can only compare like with like and therefore Balas is beyond the GOAT

    Leave a comment:


  • croflash
    replied
    Originally posted by mump boy
    Originally posted by croflash
    Sorry, but if someone has tested positive twice, all of his credibility is gone.
    agreed but cocaine and nadrolone are hardly THG
    Also agreed, at least cocaine.

    Leave a comment:

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