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Trivia Time - Pole Vault your age?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tc
    don't know where that California Relays clipping came from, but it has nothing to do with Paul Wilson's first 16' vault. The vault occurred at the CIF Southern Section semi-finals at Compton HS on Friday night, May 22.
    You are absolutely right, tc, and I should read my magazines more carefully in future.

    In AW.18.24.20 (the edition for 13 June 1964, page 20) there is a round-up (no byline) of recent US action. It starts with talk of Ralph Boston jumping an American record 27' 2 1/2" (8.29) at Modesto on May 23rd, goes on to Ryun's mile and ends up with Paul Wilson's pole vault. The way it reads is like a summary of one track meet, as though it all happened on the same day. (Which is what I assumed it did).

    On the facing page are the detailed results. In there, under May 22nd (not 23rd) it says: Compton, Calif. PV: Paul Wilson 16'0"/4.87 (high school rec. & world junior best).

    There are no other performances listed from that meet.

    Apologies for the confusion.


    Originally posted by jhc68
    But how do we know that some 11 year old didn't jump 11 feet sometime before 1964?
    The way I see it, when track stats get together and talk about the first guy to do this... or the first guy to do that... there is an unspoken assumption that certain words have been included in what they said. Those important words are "that we know of". So what the track stat actually said was: Who was the first guy that we know of to do this... or that; Who is the first guy of whom there is a reliable record that he did this... or that.

    How do we know that some guy running to catch a train didn't run a mile in under four minutes? In a book called The Native Peoples of North America there is mention of an indigenous American called Black Hawk. He was born in 1850 and became a scout with the US Army, and is supposed to have twice ran a mile in under four minutes.

    There are reliable records of athletes as far back as 1770 of men who ran a mile in under four minutes. There is the English costermonger James Parrott who ran a measured mile around Shoreditch Church in under four minutes. In 1797 a man called Weller bet money that he could do it, and won by two seconds. If you want to read more on this topic you can start by reading this. This article was written by Peter Radford who was an Olympic bronze medallist (1960 100m and 4x100m relay).

    You are right to ask, how do we know that some scrawny kid didn't do it first? Being a track stat, means, to me, going out there and finding the evidence that he did, and sharing with us the fruits of your labours so that we can wonder at the limit of what a man can do.


    Martin
    the baton is meant to be passed on

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cottonshirt
      There are reliable records ...
      You are extremely optimistic if you keep the ``reliable''. Consider
      subsequent misunderstandings, clerical errors, the possibility of deliberate
      misrecording, incompetent officials, unexact measurement of distance to be
      run, etc. With the anekdotes about the 1980 Olympics, the 8.90/10.49 wind
      measurements, and similar in mind, an alleged sub-4-minute mile more than two
      hundred years ago is very unlikely to actually have happened.

      Comment


      • #18
        Todd Toddler vaulted 2'2'' at the age of 2 back in 1937 :P
        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

        Comment


        • #19
          If I bet you that I can jump 28 feet then I am going to make sure the tape we're using is calibrated in feet, and you and I are both going to make sure that the distance is measured correctly. That much is human nature. So if, two hundred years from now someone reads in the paper that I won the bet it is reasonable to suppose that my jump was in fact 28 feet.

          To argue otherwise is to miss the point of my post. jhc68 asked a perfectly valid question to which my answer can be summarised as: We don't know some 11 year-old didn't do it earlier, but we can't talk about things of which we do not have a record. Go find a record, then we can talk.

          N.B. Todd Toddler actually vaulted 2'2" at the age of 2 back in 1922, but I lost his birthday card on which his dad had written it down. You are obviously thinking of some other Todd Toddler, so Paul Wilson is the earliest vaulter, of whom we have a reliable record, to have vaulted his age in feet.


          Martin
          the baton is meant to be passed on

          Comment


          • #20
            Does vaulting 0 feet before first birthday count?
            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

            Comment


            • #21
              If you can position a bar 0'0" from the ground, I will allow that you can find someone of the required age to vault over it.

              Do you have such a bar?
              the baton is meant to be passed on

              Comment


              • #22
                Actually I'm wrong.

                If 17' 6" counts as being 17' then 5" counts as being 0'. So yes, if you can get a child of less than one year of age to vault over a bar laid on the ground then I suppose they will have set an unbeatable record.

                I just got the rule book out and checked; it says you can have any style of uprights you like, so I suppose that would include ones that allow the bar to be (pretty much) laid on the ground. As long as the front and underside of the bar are distinguishable you're legal. So yes, you can vault over a bar laid on the ground.

                Good luck finding a field referee to authenticate it for you, and you might want to invite the press for those really impressive World Record photo's for your scrap book.


                Martin





                Martin
                the baton is meant to be passed on

                Comment


                • #23
                  Vaulting own age

                  Casey Carrigan, born 4 Feb '51, is credited with vaulting 11' 6" as a 12 year old, 12' 9", the next year, followed by 13' 3", 14' 6" and 15' 9 1/2". In '68, he went 17' 0" to vault his own age. I saw Paul Wilson vault several times, beginning in '64. The outdoor world record holder, after winning the '68 indoor NCAA champs, he tore gluteal muscles at a meet, dnmf at the outdoor NCAA champs (which I think was his last meet) and the vaulter who had the best form I ever saw lost any chance of going to Mexico City.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Actually, he went to Mexico.

                    (4.60 0, 4.70 p, 4.75 p, 4.80 p, 4.90 xxx)

                    He went and sat with his dad in the stands and watched the rest of qualifying, then went home. He later became a fireman.

                    Interesting article


                    Martin
                    the baton is meant to be passed on

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by EastBayprepoftheweek67
                      Originally posted by dukehjsteve

                      dukehjsteve asks:

                      Let's turn the trivia around, here's an easy one. Of some of those guys mentioned above:

                      Where did Camien go to high school ?
                      Where did Weisiger go to college ?
                      The answer for Camien is the high school attended by a four time Gold Medalist (same event.)

                      The answer for Wiesiger is found in your moniker. [That's OK, I like Cal (East Bay) trivia.]
                      The above "answers" are correct !

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                        Originally posted by EastBayprepoftheweek67
                        Originally posted by dukehjsteve

                        dukehjsteve asks:

                        Let's turn the trivia around, here's an easy one. Of some of those guys mentioned above:

                        Where did Camien go to high school ?
                        Where did Weisiger go to college ?
                        The answer for Camien is the high school attended by a four time Gold Medalist (same event.)

                        The answer for Wiesiger is found in your moniker. [That's OK, I like Cal (East Bay) trivia.]
                        The above "answers" are correct !
                        Now flip the question: Where did Camien go to college, and where did Wiesiger go to high school?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Vault his own age

                          Weisiger went to Mount Lebanon high school. I was speaking of Paul Wilson not going to Mexico City, not Carrrigan.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Got you.

                            My bad.


                            Martin
                            the baton is meant to be passed on

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dj
                              Now flip the question: Where did Camien go to college, and where did Wiesiger go to high school?
                              Camien went to Emporia State College [Univ?] in Kansas, a long but rewarding schlep for a NY State schoolboy athlete. [Notice the correct "English" use of the word "school."]

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Correct. Camien went to Emporia State, Weisiger came from Mount Lebanon HS in Pennsylvania.

                                Comment

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