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  • #31
    Considering your point that an athlete's best throw is less likely to be representative, I repeated the calculation but this time I used each athlete's 3rd best throw of all time. This meant that I had fewer athletes data to play with and have been limited to only 50 throwers, but this should be a sufficient sample.

    Top 50 - Based on 3rd best throw.
    1. SP 0.39m.....34[/*:m:uyx7eoj6]
    2. DT 1.22m.....32[/*:m:uyx7eoj6]
    3. HT 1.37m.....35[/*:m:uyx7eoj6]

    Notice how the SD for both the SP and DT have come down by over 20% (SP = -22%, DT = -25%) indicating that a thrower's third-best is likely to be nearer the mean, more "average". This would seem to indicate that their best was exceptional, what we earlier referred to as an outlier.

    But for the hammer the SD has got bigger (HT = +17%). It is also worth noting that for the HT the mean went up (81.59 versus 81.87) when considering 3rd best throws. The only way I can interpret this is that it means their 3rd best throw is closer to their best than in the other two events. Or looking at it from the other direction, their best is less likely to be an outlier because it is closer to their 3rd best throw than in either the discus or shot.

    This tells me that the "lucky long outlier" is less likely in the hammer (at the level of the top throwers in the world) than in the other two throws we looked at. In other words, this again reinforces what Powell said; the hammer is highly dependent on good technique, less dependent on luck. I wonder if this is possibly because it is not aerodynamic at all whereas the discus is at least a little bit like a flying wing. It might not be much but a spinning discus can generate a little lift (in the right wind) but a hammer cannot.


    Martin
    the baton is meant to be passed on

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cottonshirt
      I wonder if this is possibly because it is not aerodynamic at all whereas the discus is at least a little bit like a flying wing. It might not be much but a spinning discus can generate a little lift (in the right wind) but a hammer cannot.
      It's a very good point. Actually, in the discus, the wind effect is much more than 'a little bit' significant. Just compare the results that the Americans (and some others) achieve in the California wind tunnels to what they do in enclosed stadiums. The right wind adds meters, not just inches, to your distance.
      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Cottonshirt
        Please put the chalk down and let the grown ups play with the black board
        quoting gsce formulas is the extent of your talents ?!

        listen up kid, you are clueless on the matter

        look up coefficient of variation

        use your brain ( whatever there is ) & then learn to apply it...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by eldrick
          look up coefficient of variation
          I don't have to look it up. I am perfectly familiar with the coefficient of variation, thank you. It is a standardised measure useful when the values in a batch are measured on a ratio scale. In athletics, we measure using a tape measure which is an absolute scale, sometimes referred to as an interval scale because the interval between any two adjacent marks is the same along the length of the scale. A ratio scale might apply if you were measuring something logarithmically; earthquakes for example.

          Please do go and see if you can find an earthquake to measure.


          Martin
          the baton is meant to be passed on

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          • #35
            you clearly haven't a clue

            here's wiki take on it - read it & learn :

            The coefficient of variation is useful because the standard deviation of data must always be understood in the context of the mean of the data. The coefficient of variation is a dimensionless number. So when comparing between data sets with different units or wildly different means, one should use the coefficient of variation for comparison instead of the standard deviation.

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            • #36
              eldrick,

              I daresay there are people who find your overly bombastic approach to imparting information, your rude, witless ramblings and your arrogant and supercilious manner either amusing or helpful. I am not one of them.

              I daresay there are people who need to look petty statistical formulae up on Wikipedia because they are unable to remember what they are, didn't understand them in the first place and don't have the wits to correctly apply them. I am not one of those people either.

              I daresay there are people who, having grown tired of the ignorant ramblings of the sad, lonely morons who inhabit some internet message boards discover how to use the "hide posts from this member" facility. I am one of those people. Good bye.

              Martin
              the baton is meant to be passed on

              Comment


              • #37
                you've posted 1/2 dozen nonsense posts ( & you can't even work out relevance of absolute speed & relative speed ?! ), fiddling with stats & running around like a headless chicken

                when advised to modify the stats to come up with more meaningful numbers, you stick your head in the sand

                taking a cursory look at the numbers, the coefficient variation is likely to be almost identical for shot & discus indicating wind-effects, outliers, etc cancel out when best throws are considered, leaving hammer as an anomaly

                however, looking at 3rd best throw analysis, the coefficient of variation for all 3 is nearly identical, indicating that you may have screwed up your initial hammer calculation with best throw or if they are correct, some anomaly does exist

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