Why 4, instead of 3 US athletes in 2005 Helsinki men's 200m?

[DexterDanner]

Does anyone know why the Americans had 4 athletes competing in the men's 200m in Helsinki at the 2005 world championships? I thought that each nation was only allowed to send 3 athletes per individual event. The athletes were Justin Gatlin, Wallace Spearmon, John Capel and Tyson Gay.

[DentyCracker]

Previous winner gets a bye
Jamaica can send four to next year's W100m in Berlin by the same token

[DexterDanner]

Previous winner gets a bye
Jamaica can send four to next year's W100m in Berlin by the same token

But in 2003 John Capel was the World champ, yet in 2004 Shawn Crawford was the Olympics champ. So does that mean that the previous World champ gets the bye, and not the previous Olympic champ? And if it is the World champ that gets the bye, does that mean that its actually Tyson Gay that gets the bye for Berlin 2009 Worlds, hence its actually the US that gets to send 4 athletes for the mens' 100m, 200m instead of Jamaica?

[eldrick]

the OG & WC are completely separate entities & an OG champ has no bye into the WC ( albeit they shoud, & vice-versa )

tyson will get a bye into berlin 100 & 200 as reigning WC champ, but ridiculous usatf rules do require him to at least enter the heat of the 100m ( i don't believe any other other country requires this if they have a reigning WC who also has a bye to berlin - they coud not compete all season & just turn up at WC )

[Daisy]

hence its actually the US that gets to send 4 athletes for the mens' 100m, 200m instead of Jamaica?

Denty was referring to the womens sprints.

[DentyCracker]

Previous winner gets a bye
Jamaica can send four to next year's W100m in Berlin by the same token

But in 2003 John Capel was the World champ, yet in 2004 Shawn Crawford was the Olympics champ. So does that mean that the previous World champ gets the bye, and not the previous Olympic champ? And if it is the World champ that gets the bye, does that mean that its actually Tyson Gay that gets the bye for Berlin 2009 Worlds, hence its actually the US that gets to send 4 athletes for the mens' 100m, 200m instead of Jamaica?

The W in W100m is for women's

[DexterDanner]

I think the IAAF should just change its rules to allow the best athletes to compete. By allowing only 3 athletes from each country to compete for each individual event, we're going to see some really horrible times like the 11.5's in Beijing. Cuz the way I see it, either Nesta Carter or Michael Frater is gonna get the shaft, while someone worse than them will get to run in the World semis. If the purpose of having a round 1, followed by a quarterfinal, then a semifinal is just to filter 8 athletes into the final, I think the IAAF should allow the 8 sprinters with the fastest times during a championship season an automatic bye into the worlds, while still maintaining the 3 athletes per nation rule. That way the IAAF can balance the having the "best of the best" running and also allowing all of its member nations to showcase their athletes, no matter how slow they may be.

[Daisy]

I think a lot of fans will agree with you but it seems it will not happen. The small nations can block such an change and it is in ther interest to do so. If there are fewer top athletes in any event there is more potential tha an athlete from smaller a country will qualify for a semi final and maybe the final itself.

[Mellow Johnny]

I think the IAAF should just change its rules to allow the best athletes to compete. By allowing only 3 athletes from each country to compete for each individual event, we're going to see some really horrible times like the 11.5's in Beijing. Cuz the way I see it, either Nesta Carter or Michael Frater is gonna get the shaft, while someone worse than them will get to run in the World semis. If the purpose of having a round 1, followed by a quarterfinal, then a semifinal is just to filter 8 athletes into the final, I think the IAAF should allow the 8 sprinters with the fastest times during a championship season an automatic bye into the worlds, while still maintaining the 3 athletes per nation rule. That way the IAAF can balance the having the "best of the best" running and also allowing all of its member nations to showcase their athletes, no matter how slow they may be.

Disagree. Kenya shouldn't be able to send 7 or 8 guys in the steeple and the US shouldn't be able to send a slew of guys in the 400m and 400mH. In the WC in particular, 4 from one country is plenty for the country with the defending world champion. Part of the Olympics and World Championships is having representation from countries throughout the world, even if that means the fastest from country X is slower than the 4th or 5th runner from country Y.

[eldrick]

Disagree. Kenya shouldn't be able to send 7 or 8 guys in the steeple and the US shouldn't be able to send a slew of guys in the 400m and 400mH

i'd have to disagree

all games, og or wc are based on the ancient og & shoud follow their rules today, where not harmful - certainly coubertin shouda done so ( didn't appear to have )

originally, they were obviously for greek athletes from the various states

i looked for 3/state entry restriction

i found this :

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Olympics/faq4.html

The Olympics were open to any free-born Greek in the world

to me that means that you coud have a dozen entries/event from 1 state

coubertin wanted to emulate the ancient games as much as possible - if he ignored this & ruled 3/country restriction, he went against the spirit/rules of them on one of the most important principles & f*****d up

[Daisy]

- if he ignored this & ruled 3/country restriction, he went against the spirit/rules of them on one of the most important principles

But when did the rule kick in? I'm assuming the early versions did not have such a rule. Is Bambam around?

[bambam1729]

- if he ignored this & ruled 3/country restriction, he went against the spirit/rules of them on one of the most important principles

But when did the rule kick in? I'm assuming the early versions did not have such a rule. Is Bambam around?

Started kicking in around 1920-24. At first it was 4 athletes per event in that era, although marathon was an exception. Went to 3 in 1932, I believe offhand.

Coubertin did not really want to emulate the Ancient Games quite as much as eldy is saying. He stated that the Modern Games should be based on Ancient Principles but with modern sports.

The rationale for the Olympic Games is that it is supposed to be an international gathering of all the nations of the world in peaceful sporting competition. I can understand it much more for the Olympics. The IOC wants every nation represented,

For the Worlds, where there are less problems with gigantism because of the size of the event, I really think it is ok to have more than 3/event - I don't know what the right number is, but eliminating Kenyan distance runners and Americans in some events, and formerly Soviet hammer throwers, just seems wrong at a World Championships.

[dj]

- if he ignored this & ruled 3/country restriction, he went against the spirit/rules of them on one of the most important principles

But when did the rule kick in? I'm assuming the early versions did not have such a rule. Is Bambam around?

Started kicking in around 1920-24. At first it was 4 athletes per event in that era, although marathon was an exception. Went to 3 in 1932, I believe offhand.

Bambam is correct (no surprise there) on 1920 being the first year of the 4-per-event max. And for 1932 as the cutback to 3 per event. I don't know what the plan was for 1916, and whether that might have been the start of entry limits.