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  • Keino Accuses Gammoudi

    A recent article in The Standard (Kenya)
    http://www.eastandard.net/InsidePage.php?&id=1143997065

    (that was listed on the T&FN front page headlines) quoted Kip Keino:

    "In fact, I was entitled to two gold medals in Mexico because the man who beat me to the tape in my quest for a second gold in the 5000m was on dope."

    It appears that Keino was accusing Mohammed Gammoudi, the 1968 gold medalist. Has such an accusation been previously voiced by anyone?

  • #2
    Sure never heard that one before. However, steroids were all over the place in '68 and blood doping could have been in limited use. Interesting that Keino would make such a statement on the record a full 40 years after...

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    • #3
      well, seeing as he's just about the only world class athlete tunisia has ever produced, it does make you wonder...

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      • #4
        Steroids were legal in '68 and blood doping, I'm pretty sure, hadn't yet been invented.

        Suspect Keino conflating Gammoudi with other dodgy North African nations to come.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by gh
          Steroids were legal in '68 and blood doping, I'm pretty sure, hadn't yet been invented.

          Suspect Keino conflating Gammoudi with other dodgy North African nations to come.
          I remember reading (somewhere) a suggestion that blood doping was first tried in 1968...can't recall the source of that at present. It's remarkable that the history of this stuff is still strictly "insider information"...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by gh
            Steroids were legal in '68 and blood doping, I'm pretty sure, hadn't yet been invented.
            In which case I'm sure you'd be more than happy to let us in on some of your little secrets.
            Take good care of yourself.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kuha
              Originally posted by gh
              ....
              I remember reading (somewhere) a suggestion that blood doping was first tried in 1968...can't recall the source of that at present. It's remarkable that the history of this stuff is still strictly "insider information"...
              "insider information?"

              Check out (if you have it) story in October 1971 edition of T&FN, in which we investigated a story that had broken in the big Swedish paper Dagens Nyheter about the development of the technique by a Swedish researcher, Bjorn Ekblom who said there was nothing like it in the literature, but that it was of course quite possible that somebody else might have done it beore him.

              But he was worried that it could be used to improve performance at the Olympic level and that wasn't good. He was offered significant money for details on his methodology.

              Anders Gärderud (who went on to win the '76 steeple in WR time) was quoted as saying he was interested in trying blood doping to see if he could break Kerry O'Brien's WR. "We had better take the opportunity while we can because we may not be able to later," he said.

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              • #8
                Yes, I've mentioned that article here once or twice in the past. The question is how much before '71 was it being experimented with. By the time of that article, there seemed to be no question that it worked.

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                • #9
                  As the Swedish "creator" noted, there was nothing that preceded it in the literature. I've never heard (credible or otherwise) even remote stories of anybody trying it elsewhere before.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gh
                    Originally posted by kuha
                    Originally posted by gh
                    ....
                    I remember reading (somewhere) a suggestion that blood doping was first tried in 1968...can't recall the source of that at present. It's remarkable that the history of this stuff is still strictly "insider information"...
                    "insider information?"

                    Check out (if you have it) story in October 1971 edition of T&FN, in which we investigated a story that had broken in the big Swedish paper Dagens Nyheter about the development of the technique by a Swedish researcher, Bjorn Ekblom who said there was nothing like it in the literature, but that it was of course quite possible that somebody else might have done it beore him.

                    But he was worried that it could be used to improve performance at the Olympic level and that wasn't good. He was offered significant money for details on his methodology.

                    Anders Gärderud (who went on to win the '76 steeple in WR time) was quoted as saying he was interested in trying blood doping to see if he could break Kerry O'Brien's WR. "We had better take the opportunity while we can because we may not be able to later," he said.

                    A lot of research was done in Scandinavia. As far as Finns, Karlo Maaninka (sic?) admitted it. And Vainio's '84 Games 10,000 DQ for Primobolin was believed to have come from the steroid being in blood that was re-infused. So it was part of the picture for at least one Scandinavian country, at least in 1980 and 84. [And then there are the rumors concerning distance speed skating and Nordic ski racing, all successful pursuits of these countries...]


                    But Gammoudi was reportedly one of the first Northwestern Africans to use altitude training seriously, as he was concerned about the '68 Games being in Mexico City. And he was pretty much done by the mid-seventies. So who knows...?

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                    • #11
                      Keino accuses Gammoudi

                      I have immense respect for Keino but, perhaps, he has a grudge with Gammoudi, a great runner as well. Maybe I'd put more credence to it had Gammoudi been a "one hit wonder". The truth on this will never be known, odds are.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Keino accuses Gammoudi

                        Originally posted by Bauchwalzer
                        I have immense respect for Keino but, perhaps, he has a grudge with Gammoudi, a great runner as well. Maybe I'd put more credence to it had Gammoudi been a "one hit wonder".
                        Precisely. Gammoudi came very close to winning an Olympic gold in 1964, and it doesn't seem likely blood doping had been invented by then.
                        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                        • #13
                          blood doping is just a blood transfusion, which has been around successfully since '30s :

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_transfusion

                          it wasn't exactly rocket-science by the time of the '60s, so i have no idea why this swedish researcher thought it may have not been tried before '71, just because it wasn't in the literature

                          any doc with 1/2 a brain ( even a med student with 3/4 of a brain ) & a willing athlete couda done it anytime after the '30s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eldrick
                            blood doping is just a blood transfusion, which has been around successfully since '30s :

                            any doc with 1/2 a brain ( even a med student with 3/4 of a brain ) & a willing athlete couda done it anytime after the '30s

                            Good point. Maybe too scared of the viscosity causing death factor? Didn't think about Heparin, et al?

                            Or maybe the creep out factor was simply too ghoulish back then until the Eastern Bloc embraced Dianabol and the rules changed--?


                            Now that I think about it, there wasn't a lot of money to be made from the sport in those days; maybe not worth the risk in the eyes of either doctors or athletes.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eldrick
                              blood doping is just a blood transfusion, which has been around successfully since '30s :

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_transfusion

                              it wasn't exactly rocket-science by the time of the '60s, so i have no idea why this swedish researcher thought it may have not been tried before '71, just because it wasn't in the literature
                              Of course blood transfusions were not a technological problem long before the 1970s, but that's not the point. The question is whether anyone realized they could be used to improve endurance.
                              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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