Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

    In 1963 after my World Record Long Jump, Cordner Nelson reported from the stands, after, I say after, not during my 27' 4" jump, it should be disallowed (from his perch away from the field.) Officials from around the world only heard this. T and F News did not interview the officials next to me on the field, the meet director, the wind gauge official, the referees, or me. The 220 hurdle race was run at the same time, it had a 3.1 MPH wind. I knew I would break it before I jumped so I checked the wind with Brain Sternberg.I presented these documents(and from all the officials) in NC and it was accepted as an American record. To admit they were wrong is human but they are a Bible so it is written in stone as a fundamentalist dogma. To hell with Shinnick, to send Shinnick to heaven with the record would mean admitting a mistake. Those people who say there is no evidence were not there, they are not athletes, and they have the Bible to read from, so why confuse things with facts? The vehemence in which T and F News staff ranted against me in the records meeting and are still trying to stop its approval can only be explained by a belief; this belief is that only one person in American at the time could break the WR and that was Ralph Boston. Officials at the meet were ordered not to watch me, based upon this belief. T and F News still holds that belief, and by not being objective and not interviewing eye witnesses next to the LJ pit and only expressing personal opinions from the stands (as well as not reporting my record as an American record) has made T and F News a corrupt and less than news worthy journal. It doesn't rank as either fair or objective. To this day they are still trying to deny me the World Record by not reporting the fact it is an American Record and relying upon reporting in 1963 that harmed an American by not reporting the facts, only personal opinion. This surely ranks as religion and not sport. In the end I will win and get the WR because it is the truth and it is just. T and F News will struggle to the last defending their dogmatic Bible thumping belief that I can't be compared to Ralph Boston. Just ask Ralph, he was at Modesto and defended me in NC.

  • #2
    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

    T and F News still holds that belief, and by not being objective
    >and not interviewing eye witnesses next to the LJ pit and only expressing
    >personal opinions from the stands (as well as not reporting my record as an
    >American record) has made T and F News a corrupt and less than news worthy
    >journal. It doesn't rank as either fair or objective.

    OK, how about getting a copy of the IAAF rules... Where does it say anything about interviewing eye witnesses being required for recognizing records ??? Instead, what it says is you need a wind gauge - not one that's situated at the other end of the stadium, but one that actually measures the wind that the athlete faces.
    It's possible the wind was within allowable limits on your jump. But guess what ? It doesn't matter. You might have been screwed, but TFN has nothing to do with it - blame the officials for not taking the wind measurement.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

      Phil, I hesitate to even post a repsonse because who am I, just anothetr nameless track fan, and you were clearly a great LJ'er.

      But you have made your somewhat unusual l statement on this public board, so now I and others have a complete right, and perhaps an obligation to make comments. I DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO A FIGHT with you or anyone else so please do npot feel compelled to directly rebut anything that I say but here goes:

      There was quite a string of comments about all this several months ago. Repeating a lot of what was said then:

      Rules for WR's are that there must be an accredited wind reading of 2.0 meters per second or less.

      On your 27'4" there was no wind reading.

      These are the bare, bare facts that I believe are indisputable. Perhaps it is very unfair and stupid that they did not take a wind reading for you. And it is also indusoutable that there were gudty winds and other jumps, such as Boston's 27' 2 and something, were indeed over the 2.0. YTour statement that the wind was ok during the hurdles, run at the same time as your jump, and that you checked with Sternberg prior to your jump, probably are sincere statements but they do not checks the facts one iota that THERE WAS NO WIND READING ON YOUR 27'4" JUMP.

      And Phil, if all that you say is so true, why is it being dredged up now, 40 years later, why not back then ?

      As to your excessively emotional statements concerning Cordner Nelson and Track & Field News, your words and tone speak for themselves without any further comment from me. 'Nuff said.

      Phil you were a great LJ'er and your statement " I knew I would break the WR" sounds just fine but it certainly was not supported by prior performances or by subsequent performanaces. No knock here, just the truth, for whatever reason.

      I repeat no fight here, I'm just a dweeby little track and field fan.

      You got screwed by not having a wind reading, no question. But the rules are clear, coupled with gusty winds. In my humble opinion your appeal should not have gotten as much consideration as it did. This opinion was shared by others on this Message Board several months ago.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

        This opinion was shared by others on this Message
        >Board several months ago.

        http://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/discus ... sage=38291

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

          Phil ,IM WITHYOU ,who forgot the wind gaugue? HES the bad guy in this mess.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

            Phil,

            I've got good news and bad news for you. T&FN is not "not reporting" your American Record. It didn't make it into the January issue, but is in the February. And here's what it says:

            <<BIZARRE USATF DECISION

            Ancient Shinnick Mark Ratified

            Back in May of 1963, an almost-unknown Washington soph with a PR of 25-51/2 named Phil Shinnick jumped farther than the World Record, reaching 27-4 at the California Relays in Modesto. But no wind reading was taken (the operator was told he need take readings only for WR holder Ralph Boston), negating the mark’s validity for record purposes. At its convention later that year, the AAU refused to accept the performance.

            In his story on the meet, Founding Editor Cordner Nelson wrote in T&FN, “If the truth were known it is almost certain the wind was above the allowable 4.47mph [2.0mps]. Races before and after his jump (8:20) had aiding winds of 5.12 [2.3mps] and 5.76 [2.6mps]. The flags were standing straight out about 20 seconds after his jump, indicating a wind of about 6mph [2.7mps]. And both of Ralph Boston’s great comeback jumps were aided by winds of 6.12 [2.8mps] and 8.55 [3.9mps].”

            Shinnick, who went onto make the ’64 Olympic team, originally said, “I didn’t even know they used wind gauges in the broad jump.” But as the years went by he began to lobby for recognition of his record. At last December’s USATF Convention he pulled out all stops, engaging all kind of “witnesses” with recollections from 40 years earlier, and presented his case to the Records Committee.

            After more than an hour of hearings and deliberations the Committee voted unanimously to reject the mark. Unfortunately, USATF’s governance doesn’t leave the final decision with experts in such matters. Instead, the Committee’s recommendation was ignored by the Men’s Track & Field Committee—chaired by John Chaplin—which voted to approve the mark as an American Record and to forward it to the IAAF for WR consideration.

            Given how clear the rules are on wind gauges, and the proper action taken by the Rules Committee, we can only assume that the IAAF will give the request short shrift.>>

            Your ongoing distortion of the facts doesn't change the reality that while you may have gotten screwed, the rules regarding ratification were properly followed.

            I was barely in high school and a thousand miles or so away in '63, so I have no direct connection with that meet, but after seeing 25-odd editions of the meet and perhaps a thousand long jumps, my take is that I'm not convinced there has ever been a legal jump in Modesto, no matter what the wind readings were.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

              PS--this statement of yours cannot go without comment << The vehemence in which T and F News staff ranted against me in the records meeting and are still trying to stop its approval... >>

              Don't know how to tell you this, but there was no T&FN staffer at the records meeting. I was the only staff member who attended the Convention and I didn't get to town until after that meeting was over.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                >PS--this statement of yours cannot go without comment << The vehemence in which
                >T and F News staff ranted against me in the records meeting and are still
                >trying to stop its approval... >>

                Don't know how to tell you this, but there
                >was no T&FN staffer at the records meeting. I was the only staff member who
                >attended the Convention and I didn't get to town until after that meeting was
                >over.

                ...or you would have been vehemently ranting about it...:-).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                  As the facts show, there was no need for my being at the meeting. The Records Committee looked at the facts (as well as some of the fiction provided by Shinnick) and made the right decision, unanimously rejecting the mark.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                    Before that other thread started I'd never heard of Phil Shinnick. I see that he improved his pr by almost 2' on that jump (pretty impressive even if was windy) and was wondering how far he jumped afterwards. Looking forward to hearing from you statistic geeks!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                      As the great Dick Bank used to quip about marks like Shinnick's, "I don't necessarily want to say it was wind-aided, but last time there was a gust like that Dorothy ended up in Oz."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                        In his post SHINNICK mentions checking the wind with BRIAN STERNBERG.wasnt this a Wash. pver or was he an official? I ALWAYS thought gauges used on all jumps

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                          Garry's citation of the report in T&FN from back then gives you the straight scoop satch.... they dn nt even try to have a reading for Shinnick, the official had been instructed by meet management to bother with wind readings only for Boston ! Rememember Shinnick had a PR of 25'5" ! and " Sternberg" was his (teammate ?) that set WR's all year prior to his tragic injury.

                          Brand new T&FN issue reports the whole deal accurately, including the idiotic recent action by USATF to approve it as an AR.... 40 years later !

                          Stupidity back then,( MEET OFFICIALS ) as well.

                          Bad deal for Phil back then, a worse deal now for integrity of records.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                            I would still like to know what his record was after this jump. Actually I find this thread a little worrying. A 40 year compulsion followed by very strange accusations against T&FN plus the claim that before the jump in question he predicted a 2 foot improvement. Hello...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                              Shinnick's official best in 1963 was 8.01. He also jumped 8.01 in the Olympic Trials the following year to qualify for the Olympic team. He set his ultimate PB of 8.16 in 1968. He was world-ranked twice, 8th in 1964 and 9th in 1968. Not a useless jumper by any means, but probably not an 8.33 one...
                              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X