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  • #16
    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

    And the 8.16 was at a high-altitude site. So under legal-wind seal-level conditions it would appear he never came within a foot of the Modesto jump. The empirical evidence is rather damning.

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    • #17
      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

      Part of me says we should not turn any of this a diatribe against Phil Shinnick, but he is the one that of his own initiative posted his diatribe against Track and Field News on this board, so IMHO he is now fair game for valid criticisms of either his posting or any aspect of the entire matter.

      I am sure none of us were present at his presentation to the Records Committee. They evaluated everything he presented, and as i understand it, they unanimously rejected his request for approval of his 40-year-old performance as an AR. Then for reasons never explained the higher-up Mens Committee ignored the Records Committee and approved it. Go figure.

      I think that the Mens Committee ( with incredibly poor reasoning and judgement) decided to approve it just to be "nice" to him. Absoluteley ridiculous IMHO.

      Now Track & Field News writes a news article on all this in the new issue, and Phil reads it and goes ballistic with inaccurate and nonsensical statements.

      Phil Shinnick, please Get A Life.

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      • #18
        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

        >So under legal-wind seal-level
        >conditions it would appear he never came within a foot of the Modesto jump. The
        >empirical evidence is rather damning.

        To be fair, you have to say LJ is an event in which freak performances do happen. The ultimate example is, of course, Beamon, with his 8.90 (57 cm ahead of his second best ever), but you also have Mike Powell (PB 8.95, second best 8.70), Robert Emmiyan (8.86 and 8.61), Tatyana Kotova (7.42 and 7.12) etc. Breaking your PB by a foot is not unheard of.
        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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        • #19
          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

          The sentiments on our original thread (cited by MJD above) still stand. The officials clearly messed up big time in '63, but that's the beginning and the end of the story. No amount of speculation and special pleading can turn this effort into a legal jump. It "might" have been, but most probably wasn't...in any case, it's now unprovable. As I said on that thread above: Shinnick has the memory of an elephant and this story has more lives than a cat. What's the point?

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          • #20
            Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

            PHIL I am your fan, YOU had a fantastic jump, made OLYMPIC team.

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            • #21
              Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

              Shinnick is probably lucky they didn't take the reading on his jump as it very likely was illegal and we wouldn't be babbling about this now. He had a huge improvement in his PR and Boston's best two jumps that day were winded aided by winds of 6-8mph. And as far as testimony about wind conditions, anyone who watched Flojo's 10.49 (as I did) can testify that wind conditions can be very deceiving.

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              • #22
                Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                >>To be fair, you have to say LJ is an event in which freak
                >performances do happen. The ultimate example is, of course, Beamon, with his
                >8.90 (57 cm ahead of his second best ever), but you also have Mike Powell (PB
                >8.95, second best 8.70), Robert Emmiyan (8.86 and 8.61), Tatyana Kotova (7.42
                >and 7.12) etc. Breaking your PB by a foot is not unheard of.>>

                A foot maybe not, but Shinnick improved by 2 feet! (25-5 previous best). I would also note that Beamon and Emmiyan were high altitude, Kotova was significant altitude and Powell's came on that insanely hard Tokyo surface, suggesting that all those "freak" performances were aided as much by outside forces as they were by any supernatural overreaching by the athlete him/herself.

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                • #23
                  Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                  I never believed Emmijan's mark. I place it in the category of the Chinese women championship with all those times in the stratosphere never to be repeated (or even getting close to).
                  "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                  by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                  • #24
                    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                    I was a little harsh on Phil, but it all had to do with everything that has happened/been said in the last few months and days. So let me say this:

                    Whatever else, at Modesto back in 1963, Phil Shinnick jumped 27 feet, 4 inches, and beat Ralph Boston to boot. That's a great, great accomplishment. And as Satch said, he went on to make the Olympic Team a year later, and that's a great accomplishment too.

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                    • #25
                      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                      Thanks for all the replies. I can understand all the purity of standards or thoughts about this. I just know how it happened, and I'm sorry to hear people think I'm not honorable for defending my rights and am making things up. I believe in truth. I just know that punishing an athlete for an official's mistake seems right to you, but for me it seems a perversion of sport. I was never a professional athlete nor do I want to win many titles, I wanted to jump far and post great marks and that is what I wanted to leave in sports. I did intend to break the world record that night because all my marks that year were not in good weather. This was my first year of jumping on the varsity. I cannot tolerate injustice. Perhaps you think I did this performance because of natural aids, it came from hundreds of hours working, bucking bales, and pushing myself to the limit. This is what makes records not what standard bearers think. It is human energy through hard work and talent.

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                      • #26
                        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                        Phil, let it go. You were a trully world class LJ-er, 8.16A and 8.01 are still great marks and you were world ranked and made an OG team. Be proud of that. It was unfortunate that they screwed up the wind guage management but frankly I doubt if anyone expected a 2' improvement from you. But the rules are black and white; no wind reading, no record. Period. Congrats on a superb leap, windy or not.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                          Mr. Shinnick I don't think anyone is implying you are making things up, but there is one problem with your arguments. You don't seem to allow the possibility that the wind was aiding and if there had been a reading it would have been illegal. Looking at the physical evidence, such as Boston's two wind-aided jumps and your huge improvement leads one to the conclusion that it was illegal. As for testimonies, as I pointed out above direction and speed of wind can be very deceiving.


                          night point towards that conclusion.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                            For US Track and Field News not to support the US American record decision is UnAmerican. To actively discourage world recognition is even worse. There is not one reference to the meet director, the meet officials or referrees who voted after the meet to support his jump. You put yourself above the eyewitness accounts and followed the account of a sportswriter , spectator talking about wind conbditions an hour after Shinnick's jump. The record committee is a lap dog for Bob Hirsh, who has personal ego involvement in trying to beat SHinnick in a committee. The real competition is on the field and remember, he beat Ralph Boston at his best. Obviously, none of you have ever been any serious, dedicated athletes who live their lives for doing the right, morally and ethically correct , full of integrity thing. If this was you, would you really let it go? I do not think so! It is more about justice, and it is people like Mr.Shinnick who have been pioneers for us athletes to do what we have been able to do, especially in women's polevault and women 2000 M Steeplechase. If it were not for his example of energy ,drive , determination and perserverence we women would have never achieved great things. Who are you bone heads to do this to him. BITE ME! its what I have to say! What do you feel about the whole thing? Athletes should not be punished an official's mistake and continued denial of his fantastic jump. You are still holding on to an old belief by jock sniffers.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                              Bite me. What a bunch of BS. Phil sure does not need idiots like you to help his cause.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                                LOL!
                                Most idiotic post ever on this board? It gets my vote.

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