Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

    Shinnick does his case absolutely no good with this non-stop litany of "statistical facts" that are out and out BS, as can be easily ascertained by anybody with access to some basic resources.

    *He says Tom Moore had a WR approved without a wind gauge. Yes he did, in 1935, the year BEFORE they became mandatory.

    *He cites Joubert record accepted "after the fact." This was a mark made in 1931, also BEFORE wind gauges mandatory.

    *The Swiss woman who had her record accepted "after the fact" was because the Swiss simply didn't advance a mark they had accepted as a national record because it was inferior to the World Record, a mark that was later negated because of Ratjen's fake-sex case. Not because it was in violation of any rule.

    *Shinnick says he jumped 26'10" on his first jump at Modesto. What he conveniently leaves out is that he FOULED his first jump at Modesto, and it was estimated at 26'10".

    *Shinnick says that at the 1968 Olympic Trials all his jumps were legal and Beamon, Boston and Mays all had all-windy jumps. Mays had two legal jumps.

    World Records need gold-brick quality credentials and Shinnick keeps offering up chunks of Swiss cheese.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

      Does anyone have any concrete information on the Mens' Committee/John Chaplin's rationale for approval as an AR ? Surely it must be more than to just satisfy/quiet Phil.

      Boy, I sure wish Phil had never made that first posting yesterday !

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

        reply
        1.1936 IAAF rule 26 Para 2 says six affidavits or a wind gauge reading. The rule in in front of me. It is in the submisison. 2. In 1968 I was referring to the best jumps of Mays; Boston and Beamon did 27' right away while Mays had legal jumps at first, then on his best two were wind aided. I jumped legally three minutes after him. 3. When I say 26' 10" , they measured the foul jumps then, but to say I wasn't jumping far because it was not legal, well I don't know what to say, the reality is I was jumping far, and that is the point, I knew early that I was going far. On my third jump at Modesto my shoe split on take of and I spun around in the air and landed backward at the mid 25's. I didn't have another set of shoes. Track and Field News reported I fouled on the third jump and on the fourth spiked myself. It is difficult for me to understand the offensiveness I make to those who were not in the situation, on the field, or are looking back with certainty, at another time, that it wasn't fair. But for Americans to attack another American for setting a world record and wanting credit seems to me odd and slightly off. Richard Hyman told me about the South African and the IAAF told about the Swiss high jumper to Grant Birkinshaw from New Zealand. Facts don't make records, talent and a tremendous understanding of space and time does. But to be offended by God's work and hard work seems unsportsman to me. I think you people should be a little more charitable to those who believe in excellence in both mind and body and have conducted their life in a dignified manner. I don't distort facts, its just you might not have all the information I have which are part of the submission. After a national decision is made people should rally around it not subvert the proces because it doesn't suit them, isn't this the democratic way? Track and Field News is still a paper which doesn't do their homework, they should have read the submisison. Bob Hersh is a senior writer for T and f News and another reporter was in the room who identified himself as a writer for T and f News, Ralph let him stay. I called Ralph this morning and he could't remember his name but he was there. Bob Hersh has been a mad dog on this and was recused by John Chaplin but he puts himself above the national leadership and has misrepresented the facts to the media and will not accept the NC decision as has T and f news. History will absolve me and not them as all the facts come out. Athletes who violate rules should have some punishment, rule violation by officials should not necessarily have the athlete suffer or be written out of history. I didn't break any rules and I should expect fairness in sport and when it is not there I have a right to make the record more truthfull.This is progress in the evolution of mankind culturally--people outside the sport think this is craziness which I think it is. The public trust is being violated in my case.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

          Phil:

          I certainly can't tell you how to proceed forward on your quest. After all, you seem to be doing quite well so far. But, may I suggest that you take this opportunity to get yourself a web site where you can display the evidence that you refer to in your posts here. Give it a nice domain name, one that you want to be associated with for posterity, such as www.PhilShinnickLongJumpWorldRecordSetter.com, or maybe something shorter and pithier.

          Get all your affidavits up on your website, add some of your history to humanize you as an athlete and person, tell us what your next step is, ie, how your case is progressing up the ladder, put up pictures. (T&FNews printed some nice ones of you over the years, including one of you jumping in the trees in Tahoe in '68.) Even add a comments section to your site, since you seem eminently tough enough to handle the results. Maybe Igor will write in with his thoughts on the developments in your case.

          Then, let this site know your URL address, wait a bit for us to take a look at it, and it will soon be bombs away time between supporter and detractors (said with smiley face because, again, you seem to be quite capable of taking brickbats and giving back the same.)

          Just a suggestion. Good luck.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

            Phil, one request. Please use paragraphs in any future monster posts, I've gone dizzy reading that.

            Since your sea-level best after the huge one was apparently 8.01m and you competed at the highest level for at least another 5 years, can you explain the reason you never again got within ONE FOOT of that jump?

            Tried being pleasant before but now I think it's time to suggest you get some serious help.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

              I've said enough. It's Phil's ball......

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                Yeah, this is it for me on this thread. It's going nowhere. Mr. Shinnick: no one here is "against you" in any personal way. However, we ARE questioning the logic (or lack thereof) of your assertions and line of argument. As our responses above would suggest, with the facts currently on the table, we do not find your argument convincing. Most important of all, however, is the fact that neither Track and Field News, nor any of us, have the ability to "give" you the record. In fact, I would suggest that we're irrelevant to the process--curious yes, but irrelevant. If and when the official decision is rendered, we will read it with interest.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                  > Now we have Bob Hersh our IAAF council member not supporting a US decision and actually lobbying against it like Track and Field News.<

                  I am not lobbying against the US decision.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                    > Bob Hersh has been a mad dog on this and was recused by John Chaplin but he puts himself above the national leadership and has misrepresented the facts to the media and will not accept the NC decision as has T and f news.<


                    Nonsense. (Malicious and defamatory nonsense at that.)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                      >Hjsteve. In 1978 at a meet in Corvallis Mike Tully jumped 5.71 (18' 8 3/4")
                      >breaking Dave Roberts' mark of 5.70. However, in those days the height had to
                      >be remeasured. In attempting to remeasure the height the bar fell off. When it
                      >was replaced the heighth was now only 5.69! The mark was not ratified and Tully
                      >was thus---unlike our hero Phil Shinnick---screwed out of certain WR.

                      Hmmm... why would the height get reduced as a result of the bar having fallen ? Isn't it likely the height was only 5.69 to start with ?
                      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                        >>Hjsteve. In 1978 at a meet in Corvallis Mike Tully jumped 5.71 (18' 8
                        >3/4")
                        >breaking Dave Roberts' mark of 5.70. However, in those days the height
                        >had to
                        >be remeasured. In attempting to remeasure the height the bar fell
                        >off. When it
                        >was replaced the heighth was now only 5.69! The mark was not
                        >ratified and Tully
                        >was thus---unlike our hero Phil Shinnick---screwed out of
                        >certain WR.

                        Hmmm... why would the height get reduced as a result of the bar
                        >having fallen ? Isn't it likely the height was only 5.69 to start with ?

                        many possible answers:

                        vaulter bent bar while going over
                        when bar replaced, different sides are up/down
                        improper measurement before
                        improper measurement after

                        I know all that sounds silly but those are the possibilities.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                          Phil, et al:

                          I may have been the other person in the room you refer to as a T&FN writer. I listened to the presentation as an interested observer, and responded twice to questions regarding when the IAAF instituted the 2.0mps rule (1936) and when Tom Moore ran his WR (1935).

                          As I am not a member of the Records Committee, I left the room when the presentation concluded, along with Phil, Ralph, Lee Evans, Grant Birkinshaw, and others. The Committee then deliberated and voted.

                          To further the record, I cite the pertinent rule regarding records, from both the 1960 AAU rulebook and the 1964 AAU rulebook (I don't have a book for 1963, nor do I have IAAF rulebooks from before the 1980s):

                          1960, Rule LVIII.3.c: "No record will be accepted in races on straight courses, in the broad jump or the hop, step and jump if the competitor obtains any assistance from a wind blowing at his back, either directly or in a slanting direction. For this purpose a following wind exceeding an average to two meters per second (393.7 ft. per minute--4 1/2 miles per hour) will be considered to be of assistance to the competitor.
                          "The velocity of the wind shall be determined by scientific methods at a point half-way between the start and the finish, at a level of four feet above the ground at the edge of the track and facing the runner."

                          1964, Rule LVIII.3.c: "For all records up to and including 220 yards, and for the Running Broad Jump and Triple Jump, information as to wind conditions must by provided. If the average velocity of the wind, measured in the direction of the running behind the competitor, either directly or in a slanting direction, exceeds 2 meters per second (393.7 feet per minute--4.47 miles per hour) the record will not be accepted. The periods for which the wind will be measured, from the report of the starting pistol, are as follows:
                          80m hurdles . . . 10 seconds
                          100m . . . 10 seconds
                          110m or 120 yd. hurdles . . . 10 seconds
                          200m or 220 yd. straight and hurdles 20 seconds
                          "In the 200 meters or 220 yards (including hurdles) run around a curve, the average wind shall be measured for a period of 10 seconds, commencing when the runners enter the straightaway; in the jumping events, it shall be measured for a period of 5 seconds. In each case, the average wind velocity during the prescribed period will be calculated.
                          "Where there is available an approved mechanism which accurately determines the component of the wind measured in the direction of the running, such component shall be the standard to determine the validity of the record."

                          As you can see, the AAU was trying to refine and clarify the wind rule. However, in neither the 1960 nor 1964 rulebook is there any mention of the acceptability of affidavits in lieu of a wind reading. I suspect this had been in the rules, but was eliminated after 1936 and before 1960, and at a time when wind gauges were deemed to be in sufficient use to do away with this allowance.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                            Bob Hersh--publically state that you will accept the US position on my American Record and represent this postion with the IAAF to get it accepted as a World Record.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                              Phil you have a lot to learn about How to Win Friends and Influence People. If I were Bob I would not dignify your "demand" with a response.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

                                Mr. Shinnick, I have one question that I have brought up before and that you have not responded to. My question is, yes or no please:

                                Do you believe that it is POSSIBLE that had there been a wind reading for your jump, that it would have been over the legal limit?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X