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T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record


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  • #61
    Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

    No there is not doubt about the wind because I checked it right before I took off, then at the end of the runway my teammate Brian checked it and then I went, just before I went the hurdle race started and I had to decide whether to wait, but since the wind was good I took off.

    See the submission with sworn affidavits.


    • #62
      Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

      I am amazed at how much energy this has created! A few more takes:
      1) The jump was a legal jump. Provisions and rules have obviously allowed for a review of the circumstances of the case by the Committee. They rule it was a legal jump.
      2) I see a lot of negative animus in the postings ... yes, that includes Shinnick's against T&FN, and an individual or two. But it seems that a lot of the anger is really against the Committee and how/why it made its ruling. Why take it out on Phil? He has made his case with significantly weighty evidence. People may not like the basis of the case, or look at it all with something very much like a fundamentalist attitude (i.e., "Here's what the Bible (Rule Book) says, so that's the end of it no matter what. End of discussion." I don't care for fundamentalism in any form. I hold out for reasoned consideration.
      3) I believe that the Committee that made the ruling is made up of honorable, intelligent, thoughtful people who are intensely interested in maintaining the integrity of the sport. I trust their decision.
      4) I have watched and known Phil Shinnick since he was a junior in high school. I roomed with him in college. I've argued with him, timed him, held his head while he barfed during workouts. We have very different takes on a lot of things, and significant disagreements. But no one I have ever known surpasses him in integrity, honesty, courage, hard work, idealism, compassion, and a sense of justice.

      Aim anger at the officials. At the Men's Committee.


      • #63
        Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

        that's a very intelligent comment with which I can almost completely agree. Phil caused all the animus by some here , with his barely rational initial rant. He made the bed, people got into it. I do not think any one doubts his sincerity, just his immature communication skills.


        • #64
          Re: T and F News not reporting Shinnick American Record

          I won't enter into the technical aspects of the matter as there's been plenty said about that, but a couple of observations. First, this is a marketer's dream -- in the spirit of "I don't care what they say about me so long as they spell my name right." Those institutions that work with the media should make every effort to publicize it. Unfortunately the passion that's been exerted on this message board doesn't extend much beyond the etheral cyberspace. My second observation is that this posting sounds a lot like what they say about a certain political party when they form a firing squad -- they form a circle and shoot inward. Regardless of how this particular case ultimately plays out, it is one of the legacy stories of our sport. If Phil gets credit for his world record, he becomes a footnote in history which is not likely to harm anyone in any way, shape or form. If he doesn't, then it will likely be because the facts remain in dispute or the letter of the rules will be enforced. For my part, I've learned a little more about the sport than I knew before this chatter began. And that's why I enjoy coming to this board. Godspeed, Phil.


          • #65
            Phil's latest blast targets Bob Hersh:

            K E N :twisted:
            K E N


            • #66
              Mr. Shinnick lost any credibility, and the fact that you give him a forum casts serious doubt on your credentials as a journalist of any integrity.

              Stop this and stop it now.


              • #67
                I agree 100%. I was at that meet.


                • #68
                  Originally posted by gh
                  Mr. Shinnick lost any credibility, and the fact that you give him a forum casts serious doubt on your credentials as a journalist of any integrity.

                  Stop this and stop it now.
                  I do not see that at all. Certainly, I had seen many other acts by other
                  journalists that cast considerably more doubt on their credentials and
                  integrity, without anyone protesting.

                  Take a lead from Voltaire instead: I disapprove of what you say, but I will
                  defend to the death your right to say it.


                  • #69
                    If Mr. Stone wished to gain any sense of credibility there would be some effort to confirm Mr. Shinnick's claims as there are enough of them in that letter.....particularly in the case of his comments about Mr. Hersh. Simply firing up the letter on a message board or his own site doesn't do anything except allow someone who feels offended to rant.


                    • #70
                      '63 Modesto Relays ... Other memories

                      I have been selling off a lot of T&F "stuff" I have accumulated over the decades. As I 'let them go' I give one last review.

                      All my programs have included pre- & post- copies of the local newspapers and the official mimeo results of each event from the press box.

                      I was at the '63 Modesto Relays ... it was one of the best meets ever.

                      - Nationally televised on net work TV for the Mile between Peter Snell & Jim Beatty.
                      - Shinnick's LJ
                      - Terrific DT compettion which you could walk out to the area and be right behind Al Oerter
                      - And the Pole Vault

                      John Pennel & Brian Sternberg were trading the World Record in the PV back & forth. The PV was the only remaining event as they battled .... we went onto the infield and lined the runway as Brian Sternberg set the WR.

                      And I had the audacity to get John Pennel's autograph AFTER he just lost his WR!

                      Also, the program cover was perfect:: A Walt Disney cartoon of Donald Duck being catapulted over the Pole Vault by Mickey Mouse!

                      Another note was that Brian Sternberg had just competed at Edwards Stadium in Berkeley for the Conference Championships; 'grabbed a hamburger' and drove up to Modesto with Phil Shinnick and they both would hit 'world bests'!!

                      Those are the great memories I take of a great meet.

                      Time to move on ....


                      • #71
                        Mr Shinnick

                        I do not doubt that you seriously feel that you were screwed out of a WR. But as someone who has been forced to realistically review past events in T&F I often find that my memories (no matter how certain I am of them) often fall short of reality.

                        Winds often swirl and can give a false feeling of how strong they are. You stated that you and a team-mate "checked" the wind before you jumped. How were you able to determine this? From a wind gauge 50 yards away? None of us are implying that you are lying or being out right deceitful I just think you are mistaken. The facts stand, it doesn't matter if 100 people think the wind was legal, without a wind gauge there is no way anyone can be 100% certain. Just relish the fact that on that day (wind or no wind) you had jumped farther than anyone had before and leave it at that.


                        • #72
                          The simple fact of the matter relating to the rules in regard to wind assisted marks, is that Bob Hersh has simply followed the rulebook in regard to the jump of Phil Shinnick. That this should lead to an attack on him by Dr Shinnick is unacceptable. Affidavits, 40 years after the fact, are not part of the rules governing wind assistance.