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  • #16
    pauly

    i gotta go with tex

    King coud never be goat-100 - he had shit start

    to be goat, you'd better run the "perfect" 100

    mo ran "perfect" 100s - 6.40/3.40 splits ( '01 couda been 6.33.../3.33 = 9.66 - albeit bolt wouda run 9.60 with good RT + no 'boatin' )

    King was "perfect" last 40m goat - 6.46/3.40 at well past his peak ( maybe '82 - '87 )

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Texas
      No Carl Lewis wasn't a superior sprinter, where in the hell did you get that idea? Who holds the 60m record? Who ran those sub 9.80's? How many sub 9.86 guys did Lewis line up against? Mo ran faster vs better competition....you disagree?
      yes, Carl was superior. He dominated more convincingly for a longer duration. Nevertheless Mo was a giant, anyone that can capture Olympic gold and then come back 4 long years later and capture bronze is an absolute beast.
      ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

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      • #18
        pauly

        that's the "rocky" argument

        because he was unbeaten, lotta ko's, reigned for few years, yada

        bottom line is, his best fighting weight was 182

        that's akin to your "start" being too poor to be goat, no matter how fast your "finish"

        no matter how much better "tracks", "training" or "shoes", you're given now, you won't catch-up/ko every 210+ champ in 15 rounds - you were just lucky none existed during your reign - & vitali/lennox will still cremate you in 1 round

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        • #19
          Originally posted by eldrick
          pauly

          that's the "rocky" argument
          ...

          that's akin to your "start" being too poor to be goat, no matter how fast your "finish"

          no matter how much better "tracks", "training" or "shoes", you're given now, you won't catch-up/ko every 210+ champ in 15 rounds - you were just lucky none existed during your reign - & vitali/lennox will still cremate you in 1 round
          we have been over this so many times before that I nearly fall asleep reading your and Tex's response. For the 29th time, Carl born 15 years later and training in the mid-late 90s to 2004 would have weighed 200+ lbs ..
          ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by paulthefan
            Originally posted by Texas
            No Carl Lewis wasn't a superior sprinter, where in the hell did you get that idea? Who holds the 60m record? Who ran those sub 9.80's? How many sub 9.86 guys did Lewis line up against? Mo ran faster vs better competition....you disagree?
            yes, Carl was superior. He dominated more convincingly for a longer duration. Nevertheless Mo was a giant, anyone that can capture Olympic gold and then come back 4 long years later and capture bronze is an absolute beast.
            You're not getting it. You always start with level of competition. Yes just like the BCS tries to do in football. It's all about who are you competing against. Mo was in against the better competition and that can't even be debated. So escape that fantasy world you're wandering around in and come up tp speed....literally!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by paulthefan
              Originally posted by Texas
              No Carl Lewis wasn't a superior sprinter, where in the hell did you get that idea? Who holds the 60m record? Who ran those sub 9.80's? How many sub 9.86 guys did Lewis line up against? Mo ran faster vs better competition....you disagree?
              yes, Carl was superior. He dominated more convincingly for a longer duration. Nevertheless Mo was a giant, anyone that can capture Olympic gold and then come back 4 long years later and capture bronze is an absolute beast.
              You're not getting it. You always start with level of competition. Yes just like the BCS tries to do in football. It's all about who are you competing against. Mo was in against the better competition and that can't even be debated. So escape that fantasy world you're wandering around in and come up to speed....literally! Mo ran faster because he had to.....ok?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by paulthefan
                we have been over this so many times before that I nearly fall asleep reading your and Tex's response. For the 29th time, Carl born 15 years later and training in the mid-late 90s to 2004 would have weighed 200+ lbs ..
                that's very true

                but even if he weighed 300 pounds, how does it get rid of his shit start ?

                9.70 with a shit start still means you are technically flawed

                Comment


                • #23
                  Mo was a great great sprinter, the best of a very good decade. He is in and always will be considered in the small pantheon of giants of the dash. I do not want to diminish his accomplishments by comparing them with Carl.


                  Originally posted by Texas
                  You're not getting it. You always start with level of competition. Y.......literally! Mo ran faster because he had to.....ok?
                  you say : PRs/times are everything. Mo ran against better competition because they all had faster PRs. There is something circular here.

                  I say: PRs are to be considered much less important because so many things effecting them change with the era. Performance above ones peers is more important than PRs. Carl dominiated.

                  In short your entire argument gets back to one simple assumptions: The clock is the only factor.

                  Perhaps we should just appreciated each of them as immensely talented highly disciplined men.

                  absit invidia
                  ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by paulthefan
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    ]
                    You're not getting it. You always start with level of competition. Y.......literally! Mo ran faster because he had to.....ok?
                    you say : PRs/times are everything. Mo ran against better competition because they all had faster PRs.

                    I say: PRs are to be considered much less important because so many things effecting them change with the era. Performance above ones peers is far more important than PRs. Carl dominiated.


                    absit invidia
                    Ever heard of....

                    Francis Baldwin
                    Doug Hawken
                    Craig Wallace
                    Earl Harris

                    ....let me guess..nope! All ran a 9.2 back in the old yards days. Ever heard of WR holder Roscoe Cook a 9.3 guy? How about WR holder SamPerry who ran the indoor 60 in 5.9 while at Fordham? Do you think I think those mentioned were "great" sprinters? Come on man!

                    When Mo was winning he was beating Ato Boldon, Bruny Surin, Donovan Bailey,Frankie Fredericks. Now who was King Carl dealing with?

                    Work with me here...

                    Scooter Reed is a 10.65 guy out of Redwood High in Montana. He has dominated the state meet for 4 years. He's being talked about as the greatest ever from Montana. He's never lost!

                    Monroe Overton is a 10.45 guy out of Sealy High in Texas. He has never won state and just took third his senior year, his highest finish ever.

                    Now you are recruiting tracksters for Arkansas. Who would interest you more Scooter or Monroe?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Texas

                      When Mo was winning he was beating Ato Boldon, Bruny Surin, Donovan Bailey,Frankie Fredericks. Now who was King Carl dealing with?
                      Calvin Smith, Leroy Burell, Stanley Floyd, Alan Wells, Sam Graddy, Kirk Baptise, Ben Johnson, Harvey Glance, Mel Lattany...


                      Carl beats Mo' s adversaries easily. Can Mo deal with Calvin and Burell, I dont know.
                      ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

                      Comment

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