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  • #16
    If he went to a JC, he probably was not an academic blue chipper. If he left JC after 1 year to join the Air Force, he probably was considerably less than an honor roll student at the JC. And after being in the Air Force, it is time to move on into normal non-military adulthood. Does not seem unusual at all.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dukehjsteve
      If he went to a JC, he probably was not an academic blue chipper. If he left JC after 1 year to join the Air Force, he probably was considerably less than an honor roll student at the JC. And after being in the Air Force, it is time to move on into normal non-military adulthood. Does not seem unusual at all.
      I seriously doubt the track world has seen that many Rhodes Scholars. I'm pretty sure a 9.4 guy could have ended up somewhere like a San Francisco State/Sacramento State/U of San Francisco.

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      • #18
        Jackson had family responsibilities that may have outweighed his desire to run. As a high schooler, he went to class, participated in sports, then worked nights as an elevator operator in Oakland.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tc
          Jackson had family responsibilities that may have outweighed his desire to run. As a high schooler, he went to class, participated in sports, then worked nights as an elevator operator in Oakland.
          Ok there we go, now that would explain things. Which is what I was trying to dig up.

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          • #20
            Speaking in general, whenever we wonder "what happened to", especially in the first few years after HS, it is easy to forget that just like all of us, these kids have families, spouses/significant others, many times children, parents, unique circumstances, the whole nine yards.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dukehjsteve
              Speaking in general, whenever we wonder "what happened to", especially in the first few years after HS, it is easy to forget that just like all of us, these kids have families, spouses/significant others, many times children, parents, unique circumstances, the whole nine yards.
              Sure! The deal is we track freaks see....Marion Sims 9.3 Laney. Then watch him run a dead heat with fellow Laney-ite Micky Matthews who was also a 9.3 guy who would run for Kansas, then wonder where did Marion Sims end up? He just vanished. I've love to know what happened to guys who did have the gift but for some reason or another did nothing with it.

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              • #22
                Obscurity

                Texas, I haven't seen the name "Julius Wheeler" in years. Wow! I think he went to Manual Arts High in Los Angeles. I think he held the LA Schools 100 yd mark for a long time--probably until the Ronnie Ray Smith ascendancy in 1966. Speaking of obscurity, just curious: would you happen to know why Charles Moch, a sprint marvel in Junior High and High School ( I think at LA High School), never made a splash at levels beyond? Thanks.





                I hear ya as far as times go. Then there's..

                1960 Cali Championships

                1 Bill Cowings Fowler 9.7
                2 John Peters Jordan 9.8
                3 Hubie Watson Jordan 9.9
                4 Tom Webb Pleasant Hill 9.9
                5-T John Lacey Fontana 10.0
                5-T Tim Russell Lakewood 10.0

                1963 Cali Championships

                1 Alvin Mahn Edison 9.6
                2 John House Muir 9.7
                3 Travis Williams Ells 9.7
                4 Tommie Smith Lemoore 9.7
                5 Jerry Williams Berkeley 9.8
                6 Julius Wheeler Manual Arts 9.8

                gh the next time you get bored, could you check in your archives there at T&FN and see what you got on Cowings and Mahn?

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                • #23
                  Re: Obscurity

                  Originally posted by Chibcha
                  Texas, I haven't seen the name "Julius Wheeler" in years. Wow! I think he went to Manual Arts High in Los Angeles. I think he held the LA Schools 100 yd mark for a long time--probably until the Ronnie Ray Smith ascendancy in 1966. Speaking of obscurity, just curious: would you happen to know why Charles Moch, a sprint marvel in Junior High and High School ( I think at LA High School), never made a splash at levels beyond? Thanks.





                  Originally posted by Texas
                  I hear ya as far as times go. Then there's..

                  1960 Cali Championships

                  1 Bill Cowings Fowler 9.7
                  2 John Peters Jordan 9.8
                  3 Hubie Watson Jordan 9.9
                  4 Tom Webb Pleasant Hill 9.9
                  5-T John Lacey Fontana 10.0
                  5-T Tim Russell Lakewood 10.0

                  1963 Cali Championships

                  1 Alvin Mahn Edison 9.6
                  2 John House Muir 9.7
                  3 Travis Williams Ells 9.7
                  4 Tommie Smith Lemoore 9.7
                  5 Jerry Williams Berkeley 9.8
                  6 Julius Wheeler Manual Arts 9.8

                  gh the next time you get bored, could you check in your archives there at T&FN and see what you got on Cowings and Mahn?
                  Familiar with Moch but like Cowings and Mahn he just...poof!!!!!!!!!! I can see you get where I'm coming fom here. So many of these guys who show early promise and potential then....?????...nothing. You gotta wonder...what happened?

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                  • #24
                    What happened to most of these guys after illustrious high school track and field records is unknowable. It's never been an interest to check JC records to see if, for example, Julius Wheeler or Charles Moch or the other guys that you name, continued track careers after high school. Let's face it, there is an unlimited range of reasons. Just we will not know unless someone comes to this Forum and provides additional information.

                    I have not explored the Track and Field News site. I will when I have the chance. I did want to mention that the Helms Foundation (?) in Southern California has high school and junior college track and field records posted on the internet. Brings back names from yesteryear. I was impressed by the records of Forest Beaty from Glendale Hoover. I remembered seeing his name in the past. Don't know if his sprint career went beyond high school.

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                    • #25
                      Julius Wheeler ran 9.8 as a sophomore at Manual Arts in 1962, 9.6 as a junior and 9.7 as a senior, when he was hampered by a hamstring problem. He never set an "official" LA City 100 record: Hubie Watson's windy 9.5 in 1959 was the accepted record until Phil Underwood resolved the issue in 1966 when he blew away Ronnie Ray Smith by three long yards with a legal 9.5 on a very slow track. Charles Moch was an age-group star who managed a 9.6 in the 10th grade but was soon undone by a bulky body. He played football on one of the best teams in City history the next year, then popped a hamstring and (as far as I know) never ran again. Bill Cowings ran 9.6 and 20.4 (straight) in JC in 1963, when he was state champion in both sprints. He was supposed to attend Texas Southern the next year (the Year of Grambling), but I don't know that he ever made it. He worked as a ferry boat attendant on Puget Sound for many years before retiring back to California. Alvin Mann (correct spelling) reached his career pinnacle at the 1963 State Meet, when he won two events. Like the House twins, his T&F biography ended there. And Jerry Williams, who was fifth (between Wheeler and Mann) in that 100, ran at San Jose State, worked as a long-time police officer, and is the father of the current general manager of the Chicago White Sox.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Chibcha
                        I was impressed by the records of Forest Beaty from Glendale Hoover. I remembered seeing his name in the past. Don't know if his sprint career went beyond high school.
                        Going from memory only, Beaty went to Cal and was a solid but not sensational quarter miler. I think they won the mile relay in the NCAA meet.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Chibcha
                          What happened to most of these guys after illustrious high school track and field records is unknowable. It's never been an interest to check JC records to see if, for example, Julius Wheeler or Charles Moch or the other guys that you name, continued track careers after high school. Let's face it, there is an unlimited range of reasons. Just we will not know unless someone comes to this Forum and provides additional information.

                          I have not explored the Track and Field News site. I will when I have the chance. I did want to mention that the Helms Foundation (?) in Southern California has high school and junior college track and field records posted on the internet. Brings back names from yesteryear. I was impressed by the records of Forest Beaty from Glendale Hoover. I remembered seeing his name in the past. Don't know if his sprint career went beyond high school.
                          Forest Beatty did run for Cal, a multi faceted talent since he could also run a solid 400m. He was somebody who for sure should have been bigger than he ended up.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tc
                            Julius Wheeler ran 9.8 as a sophomore at Manual Arts in 1962, 9.6 as a junior and 9.7 as a senior, when he was hampered by a hamstring problem. He never set an "official" LA City 100 record: Hubie Watson's windy 9.5 in 1959 was the accepted record until Phil Underwood resolved the issue in 1966 when he blew away Ronnie Ray Smith by three long yards with a legal 9.5 on a very slow track. Charles Moch was an age-group star who managed a 9.6 in the 10th grade but was soon undone by a bulky body. He played football on one of the best teams in City history the next year, then popped a hamstring and (as far as I know) never ran again. Bill Cowings ran 9.6 and 20.4 (straight) in JC in 1963, when he was state champion in both sprints. He was supposed to attend Texas Southern the next year (the Year of Grambling), but I don't know that he ever made it. He worked as a ferry boat attendant on Puget Sound for many years before retiring back to California. Alvin Mann (correct spelling) reached his career pinnacle at the 1963 State Meet, when he won two events. Like the House twins, his T&F biography ended there. And Jerry Williams, who was fifth (between Wheeler and Mann) in that 100, ran at San Jose State, worked as a long-time police officer, and is the father of the current general manager of the Chicago White Sox.
                            Great stuff..thanx!

                            At my old JC (COS-Visalia) there was a picture of Cowings and his school records of 9.5/20.5 were listed. I knew about his Texas Southern situation then he just vanished.

                            I saw Mann (have seen it spelled Mahn) run a couple times while at Fresno City. He was beating Sam Davis who was a legit 9.6 guy and a future Speed City-ite at SJS. Hard to believe talents like Cowings/Mann....poof!!!!!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The Obscure Sprinter

                              I know this thread is quite old but I do what became of Julius Wheeler. I coached 2 of his children in age group track in Carson, CA.

                              One of his daughters ran for Hawthorne on the 4 x 1 team that held the national record for years. He also had a son that ran for Gardena.

                              Julius went to East Los Angeles Community College, ran track but due to lack of dedication in the classroom, was drafted and wounded in Vietnam (shrapnel in the legs). When I met him he was working for Pac Bell and as previously stated I coached his daughters in age group. He was a very supportive parent for our track club. He used to run the parent/coach relays with us. Still quick back in the 80's.

                              Today he's retired and still resides in Carson with his spouse.

                              I recently heard that Ronnie Ray Smith, also of Manual Arts, and a former Olympian is having many health issues.

                              )

                              )

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                              • #30
                                Re: The Obscure Sprinter

                                Charles Lincoln Lindsay (RIP) was not only a champion LJ'er (State or CIF?) but Student Body Pres. of Manual Arts HS. It was always my notion that he'd jumped > 25 ft. in HS, although he dropped down to 24-ish at USC, while dominating Frosh/JC meets in 100/220.

                                Charles was my best pal at USC, even a cultural mentor: a Math Major deeply interested in Philosophy and the Arts, he was also a pal of Jazz phenom Charles Lloyd, who even then was already composing for Chico Hamilton. I'd say Charles's maturing breadth of interests likely contributed to his "planing off" as regards T & F. He was an early exponent of (pre-computer) Math-modelling of the Stock Market, forming his own company after moving to what was then waay out in The Valley, to the spanking new Westwood Village (which he certainly helped integrate early on).

                                Years later, I ran into his first wife, an Eartha Kitt lookalike, at the DC Airport; she was escorting their daughter, Alison, to Howard U. in DC.

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