the odor around McTear's "9.0" (aka '9.30')

[Texas]

To all the above...

McTear never ran in a situation that was going to unleash his potential. We never saw the.."what could be"...from him. He came out to Cali and enrolled in Santa Monica JC and then Cerritos (maybe I have that backwards, doesn't matter) There was no 4 year career at USC,UCLA, UTEP, TCU etc. If there had of been he would have worked on his weakness which was his speed endurance. He was running 10.13 on natural ability. When it came to just "natural ability" he has to be considered one of the gifted ones.

Once read something about him being lazy and aloof. I read how he didn't see a need to work at something he already had. When I saw him run I watched him prior to the race. He just sat there in the infield. No jogging around or streching out. Then he stood up, took his sweats off and waited to get the stick. Then ran everyone down.......haha!!!!

Without an NCAA career I don't think we can get a true read on McTear. All we can do is.."great high school sprinter and he sure had a great start". I don't think we ever saw what he was really capable of of.

[paulthefan]

I know alot of guys that didnt have a full ncaa career ... when they earned a short stack of olympic gold medals.

[Texas]

I know alot of guys that didnt have a full ncaa career ... when they earned a short stack of olympic gold medals.

You missed the point.

McTear "needed" that over distance training and a real coach. Something he would have got if he'd went the route so many others took. I guarantee if he could have enrolled at USC as a freshman by the time he graduates he is a far superior sprinter to the one we saw. He "needed" discipline and structure. All we saw out of him was his amazing potential. We never saw the finished product.

Look at Tyson Gay. He was just a 10.4ish guy coming out of high school. He heads off to sprint heaven (as far as JC's goes) Barton. He spends two years there then it's off to Arkansas. He spends.... If McTear had done that..hmm...9.95?

[paulthefan]

You missed the point.

McTear "needed" that over distance training and a real coach. Something he would have got if he'd went the route so many others took. I guarantee if he could have enrolled at USC as a freshman by the time he graduates he is a far superior sprinter to the one we saw. He "needed" discipline and structure. All we saw out of him was his amazing potential. We never saw the finished product.

Look at Tyson Gay. He was just a 10.4ish guy coming out of high school. He heads off to sprint heaven (as far as JC's goes) Barton. He spends two years there then it's off to Arkansas. He spends.... If McTear had done that..hmm...9.95?

You missed the point.

Discipline is a real talent. It is a talent of the brain. It is a raw talent. Some have it and some dont. No one can give it to you. Bob Hayes and Jim Hines had it, Carl Lewis had it, countless others had it. You have said that McTear did not have it, I dont know that but with his frame it is possible that even with profound discipline he would not have been so much better than the great sprinter he was. There have been many 19 year old superstars. The ones that made it to the podium in an olympic year were those that had more than just natural speed. They had a reasonably disciplined nature and reasonable focus. College is not a place to gain discipline, it certainly was not in the mid/late70s. A college campus does not create discipline it exposes it.

By the way a HS kid (Gay or otherwise) that runs a 10.4 and is built right has a very good chance at national caliber sprinting. Any coach that knows anything about sprint recruiting could look at Tyson Gay at about 5'11" with a 10.4 and just as easily pick him over a senior that is 5'6" and running a 10.1-10.2 A good coach can look at the kids frame and the way he runs and have a good idea about how much up side there is left. Of course after a face to face interview you have the final data point to make your decision. If the shortie is a little flakey it is a no brainer, go with the 5'11" kid.

You may never get it, there might be some kind of juvenile infatuation with McTear that you are wedding yourself to. Let me make a strong case for McTear: He was an immensely gifted sprinter, a once-every-20year elite 60m talent at least. At 100m, he was obviously not that.

What we should push for is the addition of a 50m or 60m dash to the Olympic games. If there is a place for beach volley ball, there has to be a place for this short dash. Track's governing bodies should push as hard for new events in track as the fringe crowd pushes for their favorite calisthenics. the 50m and the weight throw should be first up.

[Texas]

Ira Murchison was a WR holder/Olympian at 5-4. Mel Pender made two Olympic final's 5-5/5-6? Buddy Young was an NCAA champion at 5-5. How tall was Andre Cason? Forget the height issue..ok? Trindon Holliday is how tall...10.02~!

Hell yes four years spent in a track program known for sprint success would have made a huge difference in McTears sprint life. Really not even debatable. All we saw was a guy running on his natural ability. If he would have had real coaching and surounded by others like himself no telling what he might have accomplished. You're wrong my man, college would have made a big difference in his sprint career. Work on that speed endurance and by his junior year we have a 10.05 man, by the time he graduates...9.95. To.."the guy was too short and college wouldn't have mattered"....is inaccurate.

If you are going to.."if Jim Thorpe had played today he'd be the stud of all studs"...based on his play vs midgets and slow pokes how can you not see McTear as a far superior sprinter in a real sprint program?

Something that gets forgotten about McTear's 9.0 is that earlier in the same day he ran a 9.2.

[paulthefan]

All I said was that the ability to discipline oneself is very much a talent, it is in part a raw talent. Mel Pender was an Army officer who understood the need for discipline. I suspect that if McTear had joined the Army and could have worked under Mel then he would have had a chance to be everything you project. Yes there are and were great short sprinters, usually they are guys with tremendous courage and discipline. It is not easy, McTear was great and he perhaps could have been greater, but it would have taken more than a 70s frathouse experience to get him there.

[Texas]

All I said was that the ability to discipline oneself is very much a talent, it is in part a raw talent. Mel Pender was an Army officer who understood the need for discipline. I suspect that if McTear had joined the Army and could have worked under Mel then he would have had a chance to be everything you project. Yes there are and were great short sprinters, usually they are guys with tremendous courage and discipline. It is not easy, McTear was great and he perhaps could have been greater, but it would have taken more than a 70s frathouse experience to get him there.

I don't know this for sure, yes just speculating/guessing that McTear was never in contact with a legit sprint coach who instilled discipline in his athletes. Bud Winter coaching Houston McTear!

You're a big fan of what those old timers could do today, well imagine McTear running the 100/200/4x1 maybe even a little 4x4 action at a major university for 4 years. You don't think he's a better sprinter once out of school at around 22?

[eldrick]

he ran 6.54i wr ( if that was recognised )

for a "60" guy, the best you are likely to run off that is 10.08 basic at the time ( double it & subtract 3 )

that time will get you close to 10-flat with a nice wind

i go with tex - even if his last 40 never matches his 60

( see andre as greatest ever example of shitty underperformance of a 60-guy

6.41i -> 9.82 basic -> 9.72 with 2m/s, but best of 9.92 ( +0.3 ))

i can imagine him going 6.50i with college supervision & towards 10.00-basic = the 9.95 with reasonable wind suggested

[dj]

he ran 6.54i wr ( if that was recognised )

for a "60" guy, the best you are likely to run off that is 10.08 basic at the time ( double it & subtract 3 )

that time will get you close to 10-flat with a nice wind

i go with tex - even if his last 40 never matches his 60

( see andre as greatest ever example of shitty underperformance of a 60-guy

6.41i -> 9.82 basic -> 9.72 with 2m/s, but best of 9.92 ( +0.3 ))

i can imagine him going 6.50i with college supervision & towards 10.00-basic = the 9.95 with reasonable wind suggested

You're inferring the 6.54 was the height of his ability. That race was at the Ali Invitational in Long Beach, on January 7, 1978. That's awfully early in the season.

He also had ARs of 5.25 at 50y and 6.07 at 55m, both of which were February marks (5.25 2/10/78; 6.07 2/27/83) and likely better indications of his ability.

Remember also that the 60m was run very infrequently in this country back then.

[eldrick]

races of 40m onwards, i'd reckon you'd be hoping for ~ 0.85 - 0.87s/10m speed to peak speed at ~ 60m

5.25s for 50y = 45.72m, meaning 14.28m left to cover at 0.85 - 0.87s/10m ->

~ 6.47 - 6.50s

6.07s for 55m was years later -> ~ 6.50 - 6.51

we are interested in his young days, so, it does look like ~ 6.50 back then & that is 10-flat basic if last 40m is as good as initial 60m

[NormZylstra]

I've always believed that if there was no track and one day they just decided to have a foot race down the alley, that after it was said and done there would stand Bob Hayes and Houston Mctear in the final. The two most "naturally" fast humans that ever walked the face of the earth. Sure there could have been some cat in the Congo that.........but we don't know about him.

Amen