Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Arizona State's best 4x4 [split]

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Arizona State's best 4x4 [split]

    No, def. not. Picking a top 4 is tough though!

    My relay quartet would be Williams to Frazier to Peoples to Carr.

    (Freeman as alternate)

  • #2
    Originally posted by gh
    No, def. not. Picking a top 4 is tough though!

    My relay quartet would be Williams to Frazier to Peoples to Carr.

    (Freeman as alternate)
    But if Carr stays on the 4x200 (no doubling was the stipulation), then Freeman moves in and Darden becomes the alternate.

    Comment


    • #3
      I was thread-busting, then, I guess.... all I cared about was putting together optimal Sun Devil 4x4.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by gh
        No, def. not. Picking a top 4 is tough though!

        My relay quartet would be Williams to Frazier to Peoples to Carr.

        (Freeman as alternate)
        Ron Freman was an Olympic bronze medalist. Holds the school record at ASU in the 400m and has ran a sizzlin' 43.2 4x4 split. You sit him down?

        Comment


        • #5
          Apart from dj's point about doubling, yes, I'd sit Freeman down. Frazier had the same medals Freeman did plus an NCAA 400m title, which Freeman never held. Close call, but I was always more impressed by Frazier than by Freeman.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tandfman
            Apart from dj's point about doubling, yes, I'd sit Freeman down. Frazier had the same medals Freeman did plus an NCAA 400m title, which Freeman never held. Close call, but I was always more impressed by Frazier than by Freeman.
            Freeman was the fastest Sun Devil. He had the fastest PR and ran the second fastest 4x4 split behind Peoples 43.1. He'd be the last person I sit. Henry Carr wasn't on a par with Freeman in the 400 and yes I'm very familiar with his 4x4 prowess and his Olympic anchor leg.

            Frazier had the slower PR and never split a 43.2.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Texas
              Originally posted by tandfman
              Apart from dj's point about doubling, yes, I'd sit Freeman down. Frazier had the same medals Freeman did plus an NCAA 400m title, which Freeman never held. Close call, but I was always more impressed by Frazier than by Freeman.
              Freeman was the fastest Sun Devil. He had the fastest PR and ran the second fastest 4x4 split behind Peoples 43.1. He'd be the last person I sit. Henry Carr wasn't on a par with Freeman in the 400 and yes I'm very familiar with his 4x4 prowess and his Olympic anchor leg.

              Frazier had the slower PR and never split a 43.2.
              All of Freeman's best marks were at altitude, either Mexico City or Echo Summit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dj
                Originally posted by Texas
                Originally posted by tandfman
                Apart from dj's point about doubling, yes, I'd sit Freeman down. Frazier had the same medals Freeman did plus an NCAA 400m title, which Freeman never held. Close call, but I was always more impressed by Frazier than by Freeman.
                Freeman was the fastest Sun Devil. He had the fastest PR and ran the second fastest 4x4 split behind Peoples 43.1. He'd be the last person I sit. Henry Carr wasn't on a par with Freeman in the 400 and yes I'm very familiar with his 4x4 prowess and his Olympic anchor leg.

                Frazier had the slower PR and never split a 43.2.
                All of Freeman's best marks were at altitude, either Mexico City or Echo Summit.
                I saw both run many times and think Freeman was the better of the two. Keep in mind he was in against Evans and James who were superior to Newhouse and Parks who were Fraziers main USA competitors.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Texas
                  Originally posted by RAP
                  Arizona State

                  J.D.Hill..Marcus Brunson..Travis Williams..Ron Brown
                  Dwayne Evans..Lamont King..Jerry Bright..Henry Carr
                  Ulis Williams..Maurice Peoples..Herman Frazier..Ron Freeman
                  I would have put Tony Darden on this list somewhere.
                  Where?

                  100 Meters
                  1. Marcus Brunson 10.10 1999
                  2. Ron Brown 10.15n 1981
                  3. Dwayne Evans 10.20 1981
                  4. Kenny Robinson 10.23 1985
                  5. Charlie Wells 10.24+ (10.0m) 1975
                  6. Walter Haywood 10.26 1983
                  7. Jerry Bright 10.32n* (9.47y) 1967
                  8. LaMonte King 10.33 1982
                  9. Doug Hawken 10.34* (9.2y) 1970
                  10. Howard Henley 10.35n 1982

                  200 Meters
                  1. Jerry Bright 20.29n 1968
                  2. Henry Carr 20.33 1964
                  3. Dwayne Evans 20.34n 1981
                  4. LaMonte King 20.36 1981
                  5. Marcus Brunson 20.42 1999
                  6. Tony Darden 20.48n 1978
                  7. Gerald Burl 20.57n 1977
                  8. Howard Henley 20.58 1982
                  9. Steven Williams 20.63n 1976
                  10. J.D. Hill 20.64*+ (20.5y) 1968

                  400 Meters
                  1. Ron Freeman II 44.41n 1968
                  2. Maurice Peoples 44.85* (45.11y) 1973
                  3. Howard Henley 44.92 1981
                  4. Herman Frazier 44.95n 1976
                  5. Ulis Williams 45.14+ 1964
                  6. Henry Carr 45.49+ 1963
                  7. Willie Jones 45.54 1982
                  8. Ivan Jean-Marie 45.49 1995
                  9. Mark Senior 45.59n 1986
                  10. Tony Darden 45.60n 1977
                  Thanks, did not realize they had so many burners. I would NOT put Tony Darden on this list somewhere.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RAP
                    Originally posted by Texas
                    Originally posted by RAP
                    Arizona State

                    J.D.Hill..Marcus Brunson..Travis Williams..Ron Brown
                    Dwayne Evans..Lamont King..Jerry Bright..Henry Carr
                    Ulis Williams..Maurice Peoples..Herman Frazier..Ron Freeman
                    I would have put Tony Darden on this list somewhere.
                    Where?

                    100 Meters
                    1. Marcus Brunson 10.10 1999
                    2. Ron Brown 10.15n 1981
                    3. Dwayne Evans 10.20 1981
                    4. Kenny Robinson 10.23 1985
                    5. Charlie Wells 10.24+ (10.0m) 1975
                    6. Walter Haywood 10.26 1983
                    7. Jerry Bright 10.32n* (9.47y) 1967
                    8. LaMonte King 10.33 1982
                    9. Doug Hawken 10.34* (9.2y) 1970
                    10. Howard Henley 10.35n 1982

                    200 Meters
                    1. Jerry Bright 20.29n 1968
                    2. Henry Carr 20.33 1964
                    3. Dwayne Evans 20.34n 1981
                    4. LaMonte King 20.36 1981
                    5. Marcus Brunson 20.42 1999
                    6. Tony Darden 20.48n 1978
                    7. Gerald Burl 20.57n 1977
                    8. Howard Henley 20.58 1982
                    9. Steven Williams 20.63n 1976
                    10. J.D. Hill 20.64*+ (20.5y) 1968

                    400 Meters
                    1. Ron Freeman II 44.41n 1968
                    2. Maurice Peoples 44.85* (45.11y) 1973
                    3. Howard Henley 44.92 1981
                    4. Herman Frazier 44.95n 1976
                    5. Ulis Williams 45.14+ 1964
                    6. Henry Carr 45.49+ 1963
                    7. Willie Jones 45.54 1982
                    8. Ivan Jean-Marie 45.49 1995
                    9. Mark Senior 45.59n 1986
                    10. Tony Darden 45.60n 1977
                    [quote:1isu3lkb]Thanks, did not realize they had so many burners. I would NOT put Tony Darden on this list somewhere.
                    [/quote:1isu3lkb]

                    People forget about ASU when talking speed for some reason. We could even add Olympians Mal & Mal Spence in the 4x4 and Travis Williams a 9.3 guy and one of the NFL's greatest kick returners. On those lists above we find.. six Olympians.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Texas
                      Henry Carr wasn't on a par with Freeman in the 400
                      That's only cuz he almost never ran it. I'd certainly have him on my 4x4.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tandfman
                        Originally posted by Texas
                        Henry Carr wasn't on a par with Freeman in the 400
                        That's only cuz he almost never ran it. I'd certainly have him on my 4x4.
                        There was never a smoother sprinter than Henry Carr. Cat's head never moved, he...glided. No way I'm disrespecting that great. The facts are however that Freeman did accomplish more in the 400m. He did win an Olympic medal and he did run a sizzlin' 43.2. We can't "assume" Carr would have equaled that based on his 45.6ish/44.6r.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As you know, Carr won an individual Olympic GOLD medals (200m). Given the circumstances of the races, and certainly considering the difference in altitude, I really believe his relay leg was comparable to Freeman's.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tandfman
                            As you know, Carr won an individual Olympic GOLD medals (200m). Given the circumstances of the races, and certainly considering the difference in altitude, I really believe his relay leg was comparable to Freeman's.
                            Ron Freeman lead the nation as a high schooler. He was the real deal. At ASU he set a school record. Vs the world he took third. As a 4x4 relayer he ran the fastest time ever ran up to that point in time. He belongs on that 4x4 relay...honest!

                            Can't say anything against Henry Carr.I have thought if he'd wanted to have been a 400m man only he wins the 64 games.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Texas
                              .... He did win an Olympic medal and he did run a sizzlin' 43.2. We can't "assume" Carr would have equaled that based on his 45.6ish/44.6r.
                              Of course we can; anyone who can read can put people in the order of their times; informed analysis allows us to make adjustments based on conditions and timeframe.

                              One must remember how the U.S. team was chosen in Tokyo. From Jim Dunaway's story in T&FN:

                              <<Before the final the U.S. team huddled and suggested a new running order to coach Bob Giegengack… Cassell to lead off, followed by Larrabee, Williams and Carr. Said Giegengack, "I told them they could run 2:58 [at a time when the WR was 3:02.2] with Carr leading off. But they answered that they knew the important thing was to make sure of the gold medals and that they knew Carr could bring the baton home first no matter where he got it. I had to agree with them on both counts so we made the change.">>

                              So Carr ran 44.5 from the chewed up dirt (remember Bob Hayes? If you're going to cite is lane 1 run in the dirt there as hard-core evidence, then....).

                              Put Carr on Mexico City's synthetic and he runs 43-flat.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X