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  • #31
    go look up what carr won the trials-trials on 4th july ( no hayes in race ) - he wasn't flying...

    anyhows, the books show hayes as having tied the 20.5wr twice in '63 when he was nowhere near as good as in '64 certainly over 100m & i see no reason why he woudn't have made some significant improvement over 200

    now answer the question :

    what shoud a 9.95 guy with a wr background over 200 the prevous year run as slowest for 200 in his newly acquired 9.95 shape ???

    Comment


    • #32
      Maybe not forever

      Originally posted by dukehjsteve
      The only "forever" HS record IMO is Carter's 81' + .
      If Nick Vena can get up to the 72-73 foot range this spring maybe Carter's 81'+ record could be his before he is done.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by eldrick
        go look up what carr won the trials-trials on 4th july ( no hayes in race ) - he wasn't flying...

        anyhows, the books show hayes as having tied the 20.5wr twice in '63 when he was nowhere near as good as in '64 certainly over 100m & i see no reason why he woudn't have made some significant improvement over 200

        now answer the question :

        what shoud a 9.95 guy with a wr background over 200 the prevous year run as slowest for 200 in his newly acquired 9.95 shape ???
        Hayes ran 20.5, then there's Henry Carr...

        World Records

        20.4y Tempe Mar 19, 1963
        20.3y Tempe Mar 23, 1963
        20.2y Tempe Apr 04, 1964

        I'm a big Bob Hayes fan, he was no match for Henry Carr in the 200m.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

        Then thre are these sub 20.15 guys...Danny Everett, Tyree Washington and LaShawn Merritt none known as 100m sprinters.

        Comment


        • #34
          you clearly have not learnt any lessons from history despite all the "history" you spout

          hayes was in 9.95 shape & 100y+ of history has taught us that any guy with a reasonable 200 background ( he had ) will approach close to double ratio of his 100 clocking

          he was due a titanic 200 off that big an improvement of his 100 ( like bolt recently demonstrated )

          at worst, he shouda probably gone maybe 20.25 in tokyo & possibly under 20.20 & very likely gold

          if you have enough 100m speed & a200 background, nothing is impossible - speed kills

          as for your laughable <20.15 guys - how do they compare to ato, frankie, King, mo, etc over 200???

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by eldrick
            you clearly have not learnt any lessons from history despite all the "history" you spout

            hayes was in 9.95 shape & 100y+ of history has taught us that any guy with a reasonable 200 background ( he had ) will approach close to double ratio of his 100 clocking

            he was due a titanic 200 off that big an improvement of his 100 ( like bolt recently demonstrated )

            at worst, he shouda probably gone maybe 20.25 in tokyo & possibly under 20.20 & very likely gold

            if you have enough 100m speed & a200 background, nothing is impossible - speed kills

            as for your laughable <20.15 guys - how do they compare to ato, frankie, King, mo, etc over 200???
            Apparently facts aren't your thang....huh? The facts are this...

            Henry Carr ran more fast times than Bob Hayes did in tHe 200m he also beat Hayes more times than Hayes beat him. Now what is it about those "facts" you don't understand? If you think Hayes was going to beat Henry Carr at the 64 Olympics you are living in a fantasy world.

            Now about that a 100m guy is going to run double his 100m. Ok cool! So Frankie and Ato should have destroyed that slowpoke MJ and his mere 10.09 pr....right? They were 9.86 guys...right? What happened?

            I mentioned Everett, Washington and Merritt to show that guys without any 100m prowess at all, can run a fast 200m.

            Why do you keep ignoring reality? Wasn't Roy Martin the HS 200m record holder a sub 45.00 relayer? Haven't the last five 200m WR holders all ran the 400m? Didn't 19.63 man Xavier Carter run a 44.53? Wasn't 19.65 man Wallace Spearmon running the 400m in high school? Doesn't Cal State 200m record holder Bryshon Nellum also run the 400m? You don't see a trend there? It's not obvious?

            Somewhere in some T&FN they interview Lorenzo Daneil who would set an NCAA 200m record with a 19.87? When asked the secret to his success guess what he said? Yep..."I train like a 400m man". In another interview, this time it was Dennis Mitchell. He talked about his 400m ability as being the key to his success. After Mel Lattany ran his 9.96 guess what he attributed that to......yep..."once I started training more like a 400m sprinter...." You think I just make this stuff up? Talk to any coach about the secret to the 200m and he'll mention something to do with ..speed endurance/speed maintenance/speed in reserve. The 200 meters is not about 100m speed. Surprised you don't know that.

            Comment


            • #36
              it appears you don't have a clue

              fact - hayes twice ran 20.5wr in '63 when he was nowhere near as good at 100 as in '64

              he ran sparingly over 200 in '64, so difficult to say how fast he couda gone flat-out - but he showed disdain as he powered passed carr in the 200 trials

              9.95-ability tells us he was potentially going to drop a jaw-dropping 200 - similar to borzov going from 20.36 in '71 to 20.00 easing down in '72, or bolt who had spent a career more-or-less getting whupped by tyson dropping from 19.75 to 19.30, which tyson will never beat

              i see clearly, just a small amount of lateral thinking is beyond you

              as for mj - you clearly have no comprehension of simple physics - i've asked you countless times : how much time do you take off for running 10.12 on a curve to a straight ???

              come on, i know you can do simple subtraction of some amount from it ( i hope ! )

              as for x-man, he has run 10.00 - similar prowess to 44.53 - similar to bolt his coach woudn't let him run 100s for some inexplicable reason, but soon as he did, he dropped to 10.09

              as for wally, he has run 9.96 - you have to be soft in the head to think that compares to a 45.2 - wally is a 100/200 guy

              Comment


              • #37
                I count 11 (!) Texas-Eldrick back-and-forths in a row here! is that record? Perspiring minds want to know!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by eldrick
                  it appears you don't have a clue

                  fact - hayes twice ran 20.5wr in '63 when he was nowhere near as good at 100 as in '64

                  he ran sparingly over 200 in '64, so difficult to say how fast he couda gone flat-out - but he showed disdain as he powered passed carr in the 200 trials

                  9.95-ability tells us he was potentially going to drop a jaw-dropping 200 - similar to borzov going from 20.36 in '71 to 20.00 easing down in '72, or bolt who had spent a career more-or-less getting whupped by tyson dropping from 19.75 to 19.30, which tyson will never beat

                  i see clearly, just a small amount of lateral thinking is beyond you

                  as for mj - you clearly have no comprehension of simple physics - i've asked you countless times : how much time do you take off for running 10.12 on a curve to a straight ???

                  come on, i know you can do simple subtraction of some amount from it ( i hope ! )

                  as for x-man, he has run 10.00 - similar prowess to 44.53 - similar to bolt his coach woudn't let him run 100s for some inexplicable reason, but soon as he did, he dropped to 10.09

                  as for wally, he has run 9.96 - you have to be soft in the head to think that compares to a 45.2 - wally is a 100/200 guy
                  You're so lost it's comical. Do you simply lack comprehension skills? Pay attention, you can do this..ok?

                  Bob Hayes did not...now pay attention...DID NOT...run as fast as Carr in the 200m..ok? You do know he lost more to Carr than he won...right? Now what did MJ actually run the 100m in? His pr was a sluggish 10.09....right? He was not a 9.86 sprinter like Ato and Frankie now was he...try...nope! While I talk the facts and what actually happened you're out there in some netherworld of your making. Trust me a football coach doesn't wanna here about how Jethro Edmonds can run a 40 in 4.25 because of a lot of eldrickisms. He wants to see the kid run a 4.25.......trust me!
                  .
                  Reality seems to knock you on you butt. What's with that? Look don't be telling how because a 100 guy ran this or that he was going to beat the WR holder in the 2-00m in the biggest race of his life. That's rookie and you should know better the sad thing is you don't.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by eldrick
                    it appears you don't have a clue

                    fact - hayes twice ran 20.5wr in '63 when he was nowhere near as good at 100 as in '64

                    he ran sparingly over 200 in '64, so difficult to say how fast he couda gone flat-out - but he showed disdain as he powered passed carr in the 200 trials

                    9.95-ability tells us he was potentially going to drop a jaw-dropping 200 - similar to borzov going from 20.36 in '71 to 20.00 easing down in '72, or bolt who had spent a career more-or-less getting whupped by tyson dropping from 19.75 to 19.30, which tyson will never beat

                    i see clearly, just a small amount of lateral thinking is beyond you

                    as for mj - you clearly have no comprehension of simple physics - i've asked you countless times : how much time do you take off for running 10.12 on a curve to a straight ???

                    come on, i know you can do simple subtraction of some amount from it ( i hope ! )

                    as for x-man, he has run 10.00 - similar prowess to 44.53 - similar to bolt his coach woudn't let him run 100s for some inexplicable reason, but soon as he did, he dropped to 10.09

                    as for wally, he has run 9.96 - you have to be soft in the head to think that compares to a 45.2 - wally is a 100/200 guy
                    You're so lost it's comical. Do you simply lack comprehension skills? Pay attention, you can do this..ok?

                    Bob Hayes did not...now pay attention...DID NOT...run as fast as Carr in the 200m..ok? You do know he lost more to Carr than he won...right? Now what did MJ actually run the 100m in? His pr was a sluggish 10.09....right? He was not a 9.86 sprinter like Ato and Frankie now was he...try...nope! While I talk the facts and what actually happened, you're out there in some netherworld of your own making. Trust me a football coach doesn't wanna here about how Jethro Edmonds can run a 40 in 4.25 because of a lot of eldrickisms. He wants to see the kid run a 4.25.
                    .
                    Reality seems to knock you on you butt. What's with that? Look, don't be telling me how because a 100m guy ran this or that he was going to beat the WR holder in the 200m in the biggest race of his life. That's rookie and you should know better, the sad thing is you don't.

                    How many examples do you need? You haven't figure it out yet? Hell, why even run races just take a bunch of eldrickisms and do it on paper.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      i'll ask you simple questions - they are simple because a 5th grader gave me reasonable answers - can you match her ?

                      - what woud you expect a newly minted 9.95 guy with a solid 200 background to run at worst for 200 ?

                      - a guy has 10.09pb - he runs 10.12 around a curve - which is faster & by how much

                      if you can't give answers to these, you really have no business even being on this board

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by eldrick
                        i'll ask you simple questions - they are simple because a 5th grader gave me reasonable answers - can you match her ?

                        - what woud you expect a newly minted 9.95 guy with a solid 200 background to run at worst for 200 ?

                        - a guy has 10.09pb - he runs 10.12 around a curve - which is faster & by how much

                        if you can't give answers to these, you really have no business even being on this board
                        Let me slow it down for ya, do the best you can...ok?

                        Now think..ok? Carr ran a 20.3 in his Oly win. He beat Paul Drayton who had beaten Hayes earlier in the year. Drayton tied Hayes 20.5PR. Carr won easily and probably could have gone faster. How about 20.1? I mean if you're going to fantazise, lets fantazise. We have nothing that points towards Bob Hayes winning the 64 Oly 200m. Please stop with that ridiculous 9.95 talk ok. The guy ran a 10.06. Save all that bull about ..well he could have. We don't know that.

                        You're really not getting it and I doubt you're capable of figuring it out. Yes all the 200m WR since Henry Carr have been held by sprinters who weren't known as great 100m men that all ran the 400m to some degree. That the facts and all that coulda/woulda/shoulda means..........0!

                        Weren't Fredericks and Boldon faster than MJ? Hopefully you're not saying you think MJ beats them in a 100m. He doesn't....trust me! So how did he beat them in a 200m being the slower sprinter? Let's see..hmm.....speed endurance..due to his 400m training? Ya think?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          clearly i see you are incapable of the most simple bit of thinking

                          you now come up with "nonsense" of carr now being able to run 20.1, but can't give the wildest estimate of what hayes coud run off 9.95 in form of his life

                          & if you think hayes 10.06 was only worth 10.06 after watching the vid & reports of his lane condition, then heaven help you - that is laughing stock material

                          Yes all the 200m WR since Henry Carr have been held by sprinters who weren't known as great 100m men that all ran the 400m to some degree
                          drivel

                          9.69 !!!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by eldrick
                            clearly i see you are incapable of the most simple bit of thinking

                            you now come up with "nonsense" of carr now being able to run 20.1, but can't give the wildest estimate of what hayes coud run off 9.95 in form of his life

                            & if you think hayes 10.06 was only worth 10.06 after watching the vid & reports of his lane condition, then heaven help you - that is laughing stock material

                            Yes all the 200m WR since Henry Carr have been held by sprinters who weren't known as great 100m men that all ran the 400m to some degree
                            drivel

                            9.69 !!!
                            Laughing stock material is knowing that Henry Carr, Tommie Smith, Pietro Mennea, MJ and Usain Bolt are the only ones to hold the 200m WR since 1964 and all also had success in the 400m and trying to tell me it's all about 100m speed....hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!! You for real?

                            One more time, please pay attention....ok?

                            Usain Bolt...19.30....ran a 45.3 as a teenager
                            MJ...19.32...current 400m WR holder
                            Mike Marsh...Oly 200m champion...45.0?
                            Roy Martin...HS 200m record holder...43.5r
                            Bryshon Nellum...Cal 200m record holder....Cal State 400m champion
                            John Regis...GB 200m record holder...sub 45.00 4x4
                            Pietro Mennea....WR 200m/Oly Champion...Oly 4x4 anchor
                            Tommie Smith....200WR/400WR
                            Henry Carr...WR200m/Oly 4x4 anchor
                            Adolph Plummer...National 200m Champion/44.9
                            Wallace Spearmon...19.65/400m in high school
                            Kenteris....200m Oly/World champ...x-400m man
                            Xavier Carter...19.63/44.53
                            Derald Harris...National 200m Champion/Cal State 400m Champion
                            Lorenzo Daneil...NCAA 200m record holder/44.3r
                            Justin Gatlin...NCAA 200m record holder/44.2r
                            Edwin Roberts...Oly bronze medalist 200m/44.8r
                            Larry Black....Oly silver medalist 200m/43.5r
                            Atlee Mahorn...Canadian 200m record holder/45.4ish
                            Allan Woodring.....1920 200m Oly gold beating the great Charles Paddock ran all the sprints at Syracuse.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              now cut the drivel & re-do that list with their 100pbs

                              if you seriously believe the 45+ rubbish most these guys have for a 400pb is the key to running elite 200s rather than <10 ability, you are probably about the most cerebrally challenged individual to ever "grace" this board

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by eldrick
                                now cut the drivel & re-do that list with their 100pbs

                                if you seriously believe the 45+ rubbish most these guys have for a 400pb is the key to running elite 200s rather than <10 ability, you are probably about the most cerebrally challenged individual to ever "grace" this board
                                Are you working at not getting it? Yes speed is important....no duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be fast to run a solid 200m.......I know that...sheesh! It's when we come across a guy with good speed...and......400m ability or 400m endurance....that we see the world record holders. It's been that way for over 45 years. If you can't see that....reality...you're not wanting to.

                                Check it out...

                                If we look at the "non" 400m 200m...

                                lane

                                1.Walter Dix
                                2.Ato Boldon
                                3.Tyson Gay
                                4.Frankie Fredericks
                                5.Carl Lewis
                                6.Joe DeLoach
                                7.Shawn Crawford
                                8.Justin Gatlin
                                9.Francis Obikwelu

                                No WR holders there.

                                Now with that 400m ability...

                                lane

                                1.Henry Carr
                                2.Mike Marsh
                                3.Tommie Smith
                                4.Usain Bolt
                                5.MJ
                                6.Xavier Carter
                                7.Wallace Spearmon
                                8.Pietro Mennea
                                9.Kenteris

                                We have five WR holders there. Four of the five fastest times and seven Olympic champions compared to the three from above.

                                Let me guess...zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmm!!! !..right over your head.,

                                Comment

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