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  • gingin
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    Okay, I have to say it; Flojo over Ashford? No! I can at least understand the Gohr/Ashford debate (although I still think it's Ashford in a walk)but for all of Flojo's fame, it should be remembered that her entire reputation as "Great" is based on only two meets. Yes they were astonishing (one might even say freakish) performances, and she did get an Olympic gold, but she has very little to back it up in the company of the other top all time women. Did she ever even rank in the yearly top 5 at the century? Does she have any other international medel at the distance? (at 200 she has an 87 world silver as her best previous result)How many times in thier past meetings did she beat or even reasonably challenge Ashford? A few unbelievable times do not make for an all time great...more of a curitousity really. Ashford is still the best.

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  • Per Andersen
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    If Kuts is 1st in the 5000 can Zatopek be only 7th?
    I agree totally with the top 3 in the Javelin- Zelezny, Lusis and Jarvinen. But Held in 7th is way too high considering that neither Nemeth, Nikkanen, Nevala or Jorma Kinnunen made the list.

    I think lists like this, interesting as they are, would be even more interesting if they were split up in 25 year periods somewhat like T&Fn did with the All-Century teams a few years ago.
    It is impossible to compare Lewis and Owens in the LJ for instance.

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  • DG
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    I am missing Joaquim Cruz in the 800 and Said Aouita in the 1500

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  • hj197steve
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    to expand, up until early 60's, SAWDUST was pretty much it( occasional sand in HJ ), for both HJ and PV. "Invention" of user-friendly foam-rubber landing pits coincided and was largely initiated by fiberglass poles, and then The Flop. Landing on one's back after fiberglass pole releases, and then landing totally upside down in The Flop turned foamrubber mats into Historical Neccesities.

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  • hj197steve
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    >'The simple reason Brumel will always be No. 1 in my book'

    I agree with Gh
    >on this one. Comparing heights between Soto and Brumel is idiotic. For one
    >thing Fosbury came after Brumel. And the other point is even if the Flop had
    >been around, who would want to jump head first into some of those old landing
    >mats? A lot of them were just piles of foam grouped together, if that.



    try sawdust... and I think the pit at the Rome OG's was SAND !

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  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    'The simple reason Brumel will always be No. 1 in my book'

    I agree with Gh on this one. Comparing heights between Soto and Brumel is idiotic. For one thing Fosbury came after Brumel. And the other point is even if the Flop had been around, who would want to jump head first into some of those old landing mats? A lot of them were just piles of foam grouped together, if that.

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  • Rob
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    ..

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  • gh
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    << also
    >borzov's actual time took 0.34s of the sea-level FAT WR at the time (i believe
    >carr's 20.34 from tokyo)>>

    Don't get me wrong, Borzov was a god, but that's a non-stat if ever there was one, since Tommie Smith probably never ran a a sea-level FAT mark. Just weren't many world-class 200s that were auto-timed in those days.

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  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    As for an EASIER revision on the list: Lewis needs to be elevated to 3rd
    >on the 200 meter ranking. Does anyone really think that Mennea at his best
    >could have beaten Lewis at his best? Despite the long-staning WR, I would bet
    >on King Carl to win 10 out out 10 ten times, or 100 out of 100. And Carl would
    >have consistently beaten the other guys behind Mennea. How about a dream match
    >up of MJ, Tommie, and King Carl all at their prime? Anyone think that any of
    >the others would beat any of the three?

    i would have to put marsh & borzov in there as well - remember borzov ran 20.00 easing down with both arms in the air - easily 19.90 flat out (when WR was 19.83A). also borzov's actual time took 0.34s of the sea-level FAT WR at the time (i believe carr's 20.34 from tokyo)

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  • jhc68
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    Brumel/Soto: The tough part about comparing athletes of different eras is finding something tangible to compare beyond their PR's. I'd never argue against Brumel as the most dominant and the most athletic high jumper in history. He revolutionized the event. And he was mentally tougher than anyone, at his best in the biggest events, sitting there in his folding chair facing away from the pit deliberately ignoring his so-called competitors and popping off world records whenever he needed to impress Khrushchev and the home crowd! Tough to pick against him. But he gives up half a foot in physical stature and half a foot in PR to Sotomayor. And, ten years past his prime, Soto still dominates the all-time lists: the top 3 all-time marks and 17 of the top 25. Sheesh, the man jumped EIGHT feet! Tough to pick against him, too, isn't it?

    As for an EASIER revision on the list: Lewis needs to be elevated to 3rd on the 200 meter ranking. Does anyone really think that Mennea at his best could have beaten Lewis at his best? Despite the long-staning WR, I would bet on King Carl to win 10 out out 10 ten times, or 100 out of 100. And Carl would have consistently beaten the other guys behind Mennea. How about a dream match up of MJ, Tommie, and King Carl all at their prime? Anyone think that any of the others would beat any of the three?

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    >The lists certainly contain (collectively) most of the names who come into my
    >mind when I think of the all-time greats. I think the important discussion
    >points (which have already started) are really whether someone thinks a
    >particular athlete has been left out of the Top 10, and then to offer some
    >justification as to why they should be included (relative to another listed
    >athlete).

    The actual position within the Top 10 that a particular athlete
    >occupies is, in my view, of secondary importance and is in any case probably
    >based (to some extent) on personal preferences and memories of their
    >performances and / or media footage, reports read, etc, which allows some room
    >for variation.


    erudite post

    amen

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  • gh
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    The simple reason Brumel will always be No. 1 in my book: starting with his breakout meet, silver in the '60 OG, then running through '61, '62, '63, '64, '65 (five straight No. 1 rankings before the motorcycle accident), there were ZERO meets in which anybody jumped higher than he did. He lost a handful, but only on the fewer misses rule. Also means he never no-heighted. Incredible superiority.

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  • jhc68
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    Cool list.
    1) Smith DOES deserve a top spot among quarter milers. One race doesn't make a career but lots or races don't make a runner any more talented, just more fortunate... and Tommie ran tons of relay legs that were absolutely surreal.
    2)Also, Myricks needs to be on the list ahead of someone, maybe Randy Williams, although Williams was superb, he wasn't at Myricks's level. IMHO, I'd rate Myricks above Pedroso.
    3)The call between Brumel and Sotomayor is a tough one but Soto jumped SO much higher... I'd have to say it was a tie. And Yaschenko, short as his career was, ought to be a place or two higher, he was that good.

    Leave a comment:


  • 79.
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    So, I do have my chance too.

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  • hj197steve
    replied
    Re: alltime top list

    >
    Super guy, great advocate of sport...
    And you are not in the all-time list
    >hj197 steve?

    depends on how deep the list is.

    Leave a comment:

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