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  • #46
    Originally posted by Texas
    Ha!Ha!
    So no great sprinter ever lost in their prime?
    Lewis? MJ? Greene?
    And about the hand time thing....What else could they've gone by back then?
    How many more times did he beat those same dudes he lost to?
    How many Oly golds did those guys get? ....and then some?
    The fact still remains Hayes' conditions were much better than Owens'. And if you'll recall, I still said I'd give Hayes an edge over Owens...but not Carl.
    And if you knew T&F ranked Hayes The GOAT before Carl, Greene, Bolt, etc. came along, why did you even bring that ish up?????
    That further solidifies the fact that you just have a jones for Hayes, and thats all there is to it. You cant/wont accept that he was NOT the best ever at the distance.
    Way to hang in there!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Jesse Owens was in that "The World's Fastest Human Ever" race is why I brought it up.

    They went as far as to saying Hayes would have ran a 9.86 in 1968 if he'd stayed in track.

    I've seen Hayes many times and Lewis. Bring Hayes up to 84-88 and yes he's the superior 100m man. He was stronger than Lewis, had a better start (5.9WR) and would now be running on those fast tracks. A 10.06 on a bad dirt track in 1964 doesn't tell you anything? It should!
    How 'bout 10.2 on even worse dirt, malnourished, inferior shoes, and NO BLOCKS.
    ....What does that tell you?
    And Hayes running 9.86 in '84 is extreme speculation.
    No way he betters Lewis.

    Comment


    • #47
      How 'bout 10.2 on even worse dirt, malnourished, inferior shoes, and NO BLOCKS.
      ....What does that tell you?
      And Hayes running 9.86 in '84 is extreme speculation.
      No way he betters Lewis.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

      Worst dirt...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

      I will stack my speed freakie-ness up against anyones. I know all about Owens, Hayes and Lewis. In my opinion, all things being equal Bob Hayes was the superior athlete and 100m man. There is nothing you can say will that will change my mind...ok?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Texas
        I know all about Lewis...
        dubious claim

        i didn't see any of his american exploits in trials, small meets, etc ( except his 19.75 which they showed on brit tv ) but i saw a lot of his euro meets on tv

        i'd suggest the reverse applies to you, so i'd suggest your "knowledge" is also incomplete

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by eldrick
          Originally posted by Texas
          I know all about Lewis...
          dubious claim

          i didn't see any of his american exploits in trials, small meets, etc ( except his 19.75 which they showed on brit tv ) but i saw a lot of his euro meets on tv

          i'd suggest the reverse applies to you, so i'd suggest your "knowledge" is also incomplete
          You just don't learn do you? Right there on my desk..."Inside Track"...a book about his athlectic career written by Mr.Carl Lewis. Now add every issue of T&FN since 1970. What don't I know about him?

          Comment


          • #50
            seeing him on live tv destroy bad ben in 9.93 in zurich just before seoul...

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by eldrick
              seeing him on live tv destroy bad ben in 9.93 in zurich just before seoul...
              I've never missed a televised track meet if I could help it. I saw Lewis run many many times.

              Here he is the very first time he showed up on a USA list in the 100m. From 1980.

              100 m
              1 James Sanford USA 10.02
              2 Stanley Floyd USA 10.07
              3 Mike Roberson USA 10.12
              4 Harvey Glance USA 10.14
              4 Mel Lattany USA 10.14
              6 Calvin Smith USA 10.17
              7 Jerome Deal USA 10.18
              8 Curtis Dickey USA 10.21
              8 Carl Lewis USA 10.21
              10 Houston McTear USA 10.24

              eldrick you really don't wanna question my knowledge about Carl Lewis.....ok? I have his book right there and in my garage access to every race he ever ran.

              trivia

              Who was the high school kid that had him beat at 70 meters at MTSAC before he pulled up?

              What was his PR-split in the 4x4?

              Comment


              • #52
                Wasn't Johnson also beaten by Calvin Smith in either Zürich and/or Köln? I thought he then went home to hone in on the Olympics, going down something like 3kg...

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by EPelle
                  Wasn't Johnson also beaten by Calvin Smith in either Zürich and/or Köln? I thought he then went home to hone in on the Olympics, going down something like 3kg...
                  In 88 Johnson lost to both Lewis and Smith in Zurich. He also lost to Smith and Mitchell in Cologne running a 10.29. He'd run...

                  9.90w
                  9.98a
                  10.00
                  10.29
                  10.20
                  10.38
                  9.79dq


                  ...in 88.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    So if Lewis beat Johnson, and Smith beat Johnson - in consecutive races, then it shouldn't be about Lewis, but Johnson, no?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by EPelle
                      So if Lewis beat Johnson, and Smith beat Johnson - in consecutive races, then it shouldn't be about Lewis, but Johnson, no?
                      Huh.????

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Texas
                        How 'bout 10.2 on even worse dirt, malnourished, inferior shoes, and NO BLOCKS.
                        ....What does that tell you?
                        And Hayes running 9.86 in '84 is extreme speculation.
                        No way he betters Lewis.

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

                        Worst dirt...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

                        I will stack my speed freakie-ness up against anyones. I know all about Owens, Hayes and Lewis. In my opinion, all things being equal Bob Hayes was the superior athlete and 100m man. There is nothing you can say will that will change my mind...ok?
                        So what's "bad" dirt then? :roll:
                        LOL!!!!!!!!
                        Lemme put it this way- whatever less than ideal 'conditions' Hayes ran under, Owens endured a helluva lot worse....dont try to argue that, please! Apparently its okay to hype Hayes' circumstances, but not Owens', huh? And why do you keep dancing back and forth like Mr. Bojangles between Hayes and Lewis. I already told you I thought Hayes would likely beat Owens. My stance is about Lewis. No way Hayes beats him. And you cant hype him up enough to change my mind.....OKAY?!?!LOL

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Texas
                          Originally posted by EPelle
                          So if Lewis beat Johnson, and Smith beat Johnson - in consecutive races, then it shouldn't be about Lewis, but Johnson, no?
                          Huh.????
                          A fan watching Lewis lose to Johnson in Zürich wasn't as big a deal considering Johnson lost his next race as well, I surmise.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by scratchman
                            Originally posted by Texas
                            How 'bout 10.2 on even worse dirt, malnourished, inferior shoes, and NO BLOCKS.
                            ....What does that tell you?
                            And Hayes running 9.86 in '84 is extreme speculation.
                            No way he betters Lewis.

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

                            Worst dirt...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

                            I will stack my speed freakie-ness up against anyones. I know all about Owens, Hayes and Lewis. In my opinion, all things being equal Bob Hayes was the superior athlete and 100m man. There is nothing you can say will that will change my mind...ok?
                            So what's "bad" dirt then? :roll:
                            LOL!!!!!!!!
                            Lemme put it this way- whatever less than ideal 'conditions' Hayes ran under, Owens endured a helluva lot worse....dont try to argue that, please! Apparently its okay to hype Hayes' circumstances, but not Owens', huh? And why do you keep dancing back and forth like Mr. Bojangles between Hayes and Lewis. I already told you I thought Hayes would likely beat Owens. My stance is about Lewis. No way Hayes beats him. And you cant hype him up enough to change my mind.....OKAY?!?!LOL
                            If Hayes at 22 can run a 10.06 on a dirt track where lane 1 was a shambles. I have no doubts he can beat Lewis in 84-88 at around 25-28 on a fast track. He was just as physical imposing if not more so. He'd had more success in the 60, meaning he had a start. He could sustain the speed because he was also a 200m WR holder. All he needed was the advantages 80's sprinters had over 60's sprinters.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by EPelle
                              Originally posted by Texas
                              Originally posted by EPelle
                              So if Lewis beat Johnson, and Smith beat Johnson - in consecutive races, then it shouldn't be about Lewis, but Johnson, no?
                              Huh.????
                              A fan watching Lewis lose to Johnson in Zürich wasn't as big a deal considering Johnson lost his next race as well, I surmise.
                              Other than his Oly win in 88, Johnson's best years were 86/87. He was ranked number one in the world and was beating Lewis. I don't have 87 handy I do have 86. Johnson won Zurich in 10.03 Lewis came in third in a sliggish 10.25. At the Goodwill Games Johnson won in9.95, Lewis took third in 10.06.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Texas
                                Originally posted by scratchman
                                Originally posted by Texas
                                How 'bout 10.2 on even worse dirt, malnourished, inferior shoes, and NO BLOCKS.
                                ....What does that tell you?
                                And Hayes running 9.86 in '84 is extreme speculation.
                                No way he betters Lewis.

                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

                                Worst dirt...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

                                I will stack my speed freakie-ness up against anyones. I know all about Owens, Hayes and Lewis. In my opinion, all things being equal Bob Hayes was the superior athlete and 100m man. There is nothing you can say will that will change my mind...ok?
                                So what's "bad" dirt then? :roll:
                                LOL!!!!!!!!
                                Lemme put it this way- whatever less than ideal 'conditions' Hayes ran under, Owens endured a helluva lot worse....dont try to argue that, please! Apparently its okay to hype Hayes' circumstances, but not Owens', huh? And why do you keep dancing back and forth like Mr. Bojangles between Hayes and Lewis. I already told you I thought Hayes would likely beat Owens. My stance is about Lewis. No way Hayes beats him. And you cant hype him up enough to change my mind.....OKAY?!?!LOL
                                If Hayes at 22 can run a 10.06 on a dirt track where lane 1 was a shambles. I have no doubts he can beat Lewis in 84-88 at around 25-28 on a fast track. He was just as physical imposing if not more so. He'd had more success in the 60, meaning he had a start. He could sustain the speed because he was also a 200m WR holder. All he needed was the advantages 80's sprinters had over 60's sprinters.
                                Thats a HUGE jump!
                                Saying Hayes' dirt 10.06 converts to 9.8's and beating Lewis is extreme, dude.
                                I think youre too impressed with Hayes' physique and athletic prowess during the 60's. Youre not even considering how primed Lewis was. Not only was he a supreme natural runner, his race technique- particularly his top end, was umatched by ANYONE in his era or PRIOR. I give Hayes alot of credit. He certainly wouldve been a dominate sprinter. But I liken him to Leroy Burrell as an 80's guy, or Shawn Crawford in the millenium. I see Lewis as Justin Gatlin.
                                He was simply too masterful at winning championships.
                                ...The '91 World's tells me everything I need to know about who was better.

                                Comment

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