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  • #16
    Michael had already posted a 76-foot plus mark in an earlier round and, as he set up for what would be his final high school throw for all time, he wanted to marshal all of the forces in such a concentrated manner that he might extend beyond his own National record, a 77’+ foot throw earlier that season at the Abilene State Qualifiers meet. As Michael entered the ring and started to set up in the back, a starter’s pistol fired off and a pack of either 400 or 800 -meter runners started wildly spinning around the track. The shot ring itself was located at the end of the infield area and the throwers threw away from the track but faced into it as they set up, so Michael’s senses ¾ visual, auditory and so forth ¾ were competing unfavorably with his efforts to concentrate on his one remaining high school throw. He stopped suddenly, raised his hand, and asked the official if he could step out of the ring and collect himself. The request was granted, the footrace eventually concluded, and Michael stepped back in, re-set and focused his concentration like never before, and lofted a shot put into the record books where the ink has so deeply and indelibly penetrated the page on which it’s recorded, that one can only ponder whether it will ever be erased!
    http://69.6.224.45/downloads/carter.pdf

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SQUACKEE
      Originally posted by Marlow
      Originally posted by dukehjsteve
      You simply cannot call Carter's 81'3" a "fluke." It may be a fluke when a guy cans a full-court heave in basketball, or a guy scores a hole-in-one in golf, but putting a correctly weighted 12 pound ball an accurately measured 81'3" on a level surface is not a fluke. He just flat-out did it.
      I could not agree more. Even though the objective criteria are similar, there was, however, something flukey about Beamon's jump (even considering alt), which there was not the same feeling about MJ's 19.32. Flo-jo's 10.49, however, . . . :roll:
      And the countless 10's of thousands of high school shot putters throwing a combination of millions of throws and Carter is the only fluker...or is that flukey? I pole vaulted 25 ft. once and that i agree was a fluke because my 2nd best is 9'6".
      No, no, no..... if you truly had jumped 25', with a prior best of 9'6" and all conditions, equipment, etc., were correct, YOU DID IT. Not a fluke.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by dukehjsteve
        Originally posted by SQUACKEE
        Originally posted by Marlow
        Originally posted by dukehjsteve
        You simply cannot call Carter's 81'3" a "fluke." It may be a fluke when a guy cans a full-court heave in basketball, or a guy scores a hole-in-one in golf, but putting a correctly weighted 12 pound ball an accurately measured 81'3" on a level surface is not a fluke. He just flat-out did it.
        I could not agree more. Even though the objective criteria are similar, there was, however, something flukey about Beamon's jump (even considering alt), which there was not the same feeling about MJ's 19.32. Flo-jo's 10.49, however, . . . :roll:
        And the countless 10's of thousands of high school shot putters throwing a combination of millions of throws and Carter is the only fluker...or is that flukey? I pole vaulted 25 ft. once and that i agree was a fluke because my 2nd best is 9'6".[/quote
        No, no, no..... if you truly had jumped 25', with a prior best of 9'6" and all conditions, equipment, etc., were correct, YOU DID IT. Not a fluke.
        Of course you right! I was just making fun of my over 15 foot improvement on that special day. :P
        phsstt!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Marlow
          Originally posted by dukehjsteve
          You simply cannot call Carter's 81'3" a "fluke." It may be a fluke when a guy cans a full-court heave in basketball, or a guy scores a hole-in-one in golf, but putting a correctly weighted 12 pound ball an accurately measured 81'3" on a level surface is not a fluke. He just flat-out did it.
          I could not agree more. Even though the objective criteria are similar, there was, however, something flukey about Beamon's jump (even considering alt), which there was not the same feeling about MJ's 19.32. Flo-jo's 10.49, however, . . . :roll:
          No no no. 10.49 was not 'flukey', it was simply suspicious due to the whole wind gauge situation. I'm not questioning Carter's record - it's clear he did it fair and square (at least I never heard anything to the contrary), but it still fulfils the definition. As does MJ's 19.32.

          If you disagree, please give me one other example of a top-class putter whose season's best was 4 feet above his second best. It just doesn't happen. You'd think Majewski's performance in Beijing was a big outlier, but his improvement was less than one half of Carter's.
          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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          • #20
            From the link provided above -- one with an in-depth look at Carter's entire career from high school through the pro ranks as an NFL player, Carter's aim his last time up in a high school shot ring was a concerted effort to put everything he had into one throw -- his final one in high school. He'd made the grounds crew aware that he wanted to surpass his 77-foot personal best, so he had (more than) an inkling that he had something left in his reserves for one last put; he'd thrown 76-feet (plus) in an earlier round.

            Do you improve your lifetime best by four feet in one throw simply because you will it unto yourself? No. Can a high school kid, using a high school shot, succeed at something no professional and/or collegian was able to do with the same margin using a heavier shot? It is completely possible and plausible.

            According to the author of that article:

            Though I don’t remember if Michael mentioned whether it occurred in a meet or as a practice throw, he recalled his first-ever big throw, a toss of 70’5” with an 8 lb. shot while still in junior high! Those that saw the throw, friends and others, simply could not believe what they had witnessed. It, of course, was nothing less than one of the earliest glimpses of future greatness and of what Michael would ultimately become as a mature athlete.
            Are there many high school athletes out there now who throw 71-1 in their second year of high school (but grade-11 where grade-9 was still considered junior high) with a four-pound heavier shot?

            No one but Carter knows how that 76-foot effort felt; something told him he was in line to surpass the 77-foot region (78 feet? 79 feet?). That 81-foot-3,5-inch effort was at Golden West -- one of the premiere high school meet for grade-12 athletes invited from around the country. Carter was supposedly reknowned for being a big-meet performer. I can think of countless others who have also "performed" outside of themselves at GWI.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by EPelle
              I can think of countless others who have also "performed" outside of themselves at GWI.
              Bettering their PRs by four feet?
              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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              • #22
                Kami Keshmiri tossed his HSR discus 225-02 at GWI 1987. What was his previous best?

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                • #23
                  Use to workout with a guy 5-8 175 who could out lift all us 250 pounders. Guy was just strong. Carter was just a natural bull.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by EPelle
                    Kami Keshmiri tossed his HSR discus 225-02 at GWI 1987. What was his previous best?
                    Jim Penrose was on my team in high school and he shattered his best discus mark to win GWI. Went to Stanford, do you remember him Marlow?

                    I think he improved from 195 to 201, not bad.
                    phsstt!

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                    • #25
                      From SI vault:

                      In the space of 11 weeks, he had 20 throws longer than the previous national high school record of 213'6", which had stood for seven years. At the Golden West Invitational, his six throws averaged 218'4", and the longest of the bunch, 225'2", is still the national high school mark.
                      I was at that GWI meet, and watched yet another high school record set (1.46,58 by Kersh in the 800m).

                      Keshmiri improved from an HSR 224-03 at Arcadia two months earlier. His overall improvement over the course of one season is what was remarkable. That was post-Carter.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by EPelle
                        Kami Keshmiri tossed his HSR discus 225-02 at GWI 1987. What was his previous best?
                        DT is a totally different animal - outlier results are fairly common there due to the importance of wind conditions. We're talking SP, an event in which people generally perform at a consistent level.
                        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                        • #27
                          I know we're talking shot put. We are also talking Golden West Invitational -- a place the best high school grade-12 athletes compete against one another. In Carter's case, it would be his last shot put. He knew he had more in his arsenal following an earlier-round 76-foot-plus toss.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by EPelle
                            In Carter's case, it would be his last shot put. He knew he had more in his arsenal following an earlier-round 76-foot-plus toss.
                            You've already said that. And you still have not answered my simple question: apart from Carter, have you ever heard of a SPer (at any level of competition) with a season's best 4 feet farther than their second best? Please reply with a simple 'yes' or 'no'. Thank you in advance.
                            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                            • #29
                              Yes. Dan S., our shot-putter in my grade-10 season. 59-6,75 at conference final; 54-08 second-best that year. Not quite four-feet. I believe I've mentioned him before. That same meet, our high jumper improved from 6-02 to 6-08 as well as pb'd in the pole vault to 14-8, winning both events (something I stated on Polevault Power somewhere). He never got close to 6-08 in the post-season, crashing out at 6-02 again the following week.

                              http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... 149#293149

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Powell
                                You've already said that. And you still have not answered my simple question: apart from Carter, have you ever heard of a SPer (at any level of competition) with a season's best 4 feet farther than their second best? Please reply with a simple 'yes' or 'no'. Thank you in advance.
                                The problem here is that Carter was SOOOO much better than anyone else, he probably habitually underperformed. Plus, once you're out there in never-never-land (mid-70s), a 4-foot PR is not as big a deal as a 2-foot PR down in the 40s, and people have them all the time.

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