Jim Ryan and Gerry Lingrens training in high school

[williamwindhamjr]

These two warriors were clearly ahead of everyone as far as training went.I heard that Ryan would do curls in between sets of quaters.We all know Gerry was a mileage guy.These guys problem was not enough recovery time,but there training should still be implemented by more coaches,who have elite high school runners.Of course we know more about how important rest is now,so we can learn from them on both ends.

[ed gee]

fyi:
Jim Ryun
Gerry Lindgren

[williamwindhamjr]

Okay you can spell,but can you talk about the topic?

[ed gee]

A HS coach would probably not be able to maintain a job if they implemented similar training in today's environment.

More importantly, their methods did not appear to be particularly successful with other high schoolers, though some might disagree about Timmons.

Perhaps Lindgren and Ryun could have run faster and had longer careers with more moderate training.

[EPelle]

Why implement those training regimes? Read this quote and try to figure out to whom it is attributed:

"I had over-trained," he said. "I put too much pressure on myself because I wanted that gold medal too much. If I had trained 15 per cent less, I would have won.

"I was training like a crazy person. There was a lack of self-confidence and a lack of maturity. An athlete does not only train with his body. He trains with his mind."

I bet you didn't come up with Hicham El Guerrouj straight off the top of your head. Why put high school athletes through what the world record-holder advices against?

[williamwindhamjr]

Rest.We know alot more about rest,racing less, better training facilities,etc,etc.I didnt say do everything they did,but some of the things they were clearly ahead of the curve.Dont feel to bad for Jim,last I heard,he won a silver medal in the Olympics.

[EPelle]

"rest,racing less, better training facilities,etc,etc." were available to El G and are available to the current crop of athletes. Bob Kennedy, who later twice broke 13.00 and ran 14 sub-13.10 times, did what in high school? He was far more successful than was Lindgren, and had a longer career than did Ryun.

Kennedy's hardest workout as a professional? 4-3-2-1 with 2.30 recovery. That's an all-out effort for each number of laps followed by the specified rest. Kennedy managed 3.56 - 2.55 - 1.54 - 54 following Kenyans.

[williamwindhamjr]

they were not available to Ryun was the point.Bob Kennedy can not hold Gerrys jock strap.

[EPelle]

At 45-years-old, that jock strap, if it hasn't been washed, likely stinks something terrible. Lindgren should keep it in an enclosed case.

My last question: If Lindgren and Ryun were clearly ahead of everyone, why have their records been broken by athletes who did not follow such training regimes? German Fernandez represents the unequivocal opposite of Lindgren, yet accomplished far, far, far more as a grade-12 athlete and as a world junior.

[ed gee]

If you are saying Fernandez has accomplished far more than Lindgren did as a high school senior and world junior, I would have to disagree.

[EPelle]

I could see why you'd disagree, and I would, too, if this were taken out of context. I shall rephrase it to william, who wonders why high schoolers don't employ the same training regimes as did Lindgren and/or Ryun:

Why have the high school records been broken by athletes such as Webb and Fernandez, who have been able to accomplish so much more (input/output) off of far, far less training (the operative word here)?

william would have folks believe that the high school elite should incorporate a dash of this, a sprinkle of that and become just like Lindgren, who absurdly:

What Gerry Lindgren had described to Clarke was one of the harshest training binges in a sport notable for them. "Coach Walters convinced me that unless I was really willing to work I had no chance against anyone as good as those Russian runners." said Lindgren. He had four weeks in which to prepare, and Walters put him on a three-times-a-day schedule at home in Spokane—a 15-to-l8-mile run in the morning to help digest breakfast, fast and slow quarters on the track for lunch and a nice easy seven-to-10-mile jog late each evening to help lull him to sleep.

"But that comes to 250 miles a week." exclaimed Clarke, a prodigious trainer himself. "Yes, I guess it does," replied Lindgren, sheepishly.

I would not even suggest the high school elites follow high-mileage Ritzenhein's footsteps, who was far, far below those km racked up by Lindgren 37 years earlier.

[Living in the Past]

Jim,last I heard,he won a silver medal in the Olympics.

Yeah, everyone should be impressed that Ryun transcended his potential.

[KevinM]

Jim,last I heard,he won a silver medal in the Olympics.

Yeah, everyone should be impressed that Ryun transcended his potential.

Goodness, it never ends with you, does it? We get it -- you disapprove of the way Timmons managed elements of Ryun's training. No one in the know, including the principals themselves, disputes this outright, yet you tirelessly repeat it on letsrun and here whenever the names Ryun (or Ryan) or Timmons are mentioned.

[lovetorun]

I don't believe the 250 miles/weeks attributed to Gerry Lindgren...if you believe that quote, he ran 4 weeks of 250 miles/week before racing the Russians in 1964. If he really did that his legs/body would have been so dead he couldn't have run the way he did.

That volume of training is a recipe for injury/burnout disaster.

[EPelle]

Hyperbole alert.