The End of the DDR Era

[Marlow]

I just made an observation on the wDT thread that an important era in T&F history just ended (Dietzsch and Nerius) - the effects of the DDR. WITHOUT getting into more PEDs rehashings, they made important contributions that carry over into today's sport. Their talent identification and training methods were far ahead of their time and pushed the sport into a more modern era. Let's just look at the positive and wish them a nice ride into the sunset.

[Stafanitus]

Nerius is born 1972 and came on the scene just in 1991/1992. so this is just a complete different story. Not quite sure she was not involved, but puting her name connected with the end of an PED era is not quite fair.

[Marlow]

Nerius is born 1972 and came on the scene just in 1991/1992. so this is just a complete different story. Not quite sure she was not involved, but puting her name connected with the end of an PED era is not quite fair.

Indeed, but since she was 17 in 1989 when the end started, she was very much a product of their system (I do NOT mean PEDs).

[nevetsllim]

Nerius is born 1972 and came on the scene just in 1991/1992. so this is just a complete different story. Not quite sure she was not involved, but puting her name connected with the end of an PED era is not quite fair.

She was a GDR youth volleyball champion though.

[Pego]

an important era in T&F history just ended (Dietzsch and Nerius) - the effects of the DDR

Cuba's system is almost identical. Again, I am speaking of the organization, not the PED's.

[dukehjsteve]

I am NOT, repeat NOT advocating what I next write, but if we did it, how good would our National Teams be ?!

Send hundreds of government-paid coaches-scouts to all Middle Schools, evaluate talent, and pick a few thousand every year, send them ( parents having no say in the matter) to year-around residential youth Track Camps/Schools for 8-10 (or more) years of intensive coaching/training.

[Marlow]

Send hundreds of government-paid coaches-scouts to all Middle Schools, evaluate talent, and pick a few thousand every year, send them ( parents having no say in the matter) to year-around residential youth Track Camps/Schools for 8-10 (or more) years of intensive coaching/training.

Essentially that's what Youth Soccer does here. 6-years by the hundreds of thousands (millions?) are carpooled to soccer every weekend in the fall. The most talented ones like the recognition they get and stay with it to age 10. The rest drop out in droves. At age ten the most talented ones are picked for select teams and the rest drop out in droves. At age 13 the most talented ones are selected for ODP, the rest continue on to high school soccer. At age 17 the very most talented ones are drafted by pro soccer organizations, the next most talented are recruited by college, the rest quit. By age 21, soccer, by and large has all of America's best soccer talent identified, coached and are being groomed for pro careers. Interesting enough, because the prodigies are so highly praised, they rarely even try other sports so we don't lose them to the other big (better paying) pro sports. That has gotten us to be top-20 in the world, but that's about it.

[marknhj]

It's absolutely ludicrous to start a thread about the GDR and suggest not mentioning PEDs. Their system of talent selection, sports schools, training methods, and administering drugs, were directly interlinked and designed to optimize successful performance in the International arena.

The GDR won numerous bogus medals, deprived huge numbers of clean athletes from fair competition, made a mockery of some world records, allegedly damaged the health of some athletes, threw those who weren't of elite potential on the scrapheap, and provided a model for the BALCOs of this world.

Focus on the positives? What positives? Good riddance is about the politest I can come up with...

[CookyMonzta]

It's absolutely ludicrous to start a thread about the GDR and suggest not mentioning PEDs. Their system of talent selection, sports schools, training methods, and administering drugs, were directly interlinked and designed to optimize successful performance in the International arena.

The GDR won numerous bogus medals, deprived huge numbers of clean athletes from fair competition, made a mockery of some world records, allegedly damaged the health of some athletes, threw those who weren't of elite potential on the scrapheap, and provided a model for the BALCOs of this world.

Focus on the positives? What positives? Good riddance is about the politest I can come up with...

Diiiiing! :!: :wink:

[Slowrunner]

Send hundreds of government-paid coaches-scouts to all Middle Schools, evaluate talent, and pick a few thousand every year, send them ( parents having no say in the matter) to year-around residential youth Track Camps/Schools for 8-10 (or more) years of intensive coaching/training.

Essentially that's what Youth Soccer does here. 6-years by the hundreds of thousands (millions?) are carpooled to soccer every weekend in the fall. The most talented ones like the recognition they get and stay with it to age 10. The rest drop out in droves. At age ten the most talented ones are picked for select teams and the rest drop out in droves. At age 13 the most talented ones are selected for ODP, the rest continue on to high school soccer. At age 17 the very most talented ones are drafted by pro soccer organizations, the next most talented are recruited by college, the rest quit. By age 21, soccer, by and large has all of America's best soccer talent identified, coached and are being groomed for pro careers. Interesting enough, because the prodigies are so highly praised, they rarely even try other sports so we don't lose them to the other big (better paying) pro sports. That has gotten us to be top-20 in the world, but that's about it.

That happens in many of our popular team sports (baseball, basketball, etc.) The difference in many countries is that the athletes/parents have no choice. if you don't wanna play soccer here, the state can't force you.

Also, DDR and now China & Cuba, etc. are scouting talent for all Olympic sports.

[Stafanitus]

where did you get this "parents had to say nothing"? there are many families that did not send or took of their children from sport schools cause they did not want them to be athletes, or simply did not want their children to leave.

[Rog]

It's absolutely ludicrous to start a thread about the GDR and suggest not mentioning PEDs. Their system of talent selection, sports schools, training methods, and administering drugs, were directly interlinked and designed to optimize successful performance in the International arena.

The GDR won numerous bogus medals, deprived huge numbers of clean athletes from fair competition, made a mockery of some world records, allegedly damaged the health of some athletes, threw those who weren't of elite potential on the scrapheap, and provided a model for the BALCOs of this world.

Focus on the positives? What positives? Good riddance is about the politest I can come up with...

I think the point though is that whilst the GDR team did use drugs, so did athletes from other nations, either on a state or individual basis, yet the GDR was relatively more successful given the size of its population. The difference is that the rest of the GDR sports system worked so well.

I know you competed against GDR high jumpers, and feel aggrieved at the advantage you feel they got from drugs, but what about athletes from the rest of the Eastern Bloc, or from the US - either Americans or athletes from other countries who trained there - who were very probably using PEDs as well? Do you feel the same animosity towards them? Or your British teammates in other events who were on PEDS, did you draw attention to their drug use?

Do you honestly feel at the major championship level that there were many clean athletes making the major finals, given that your international career lasted from the late 70s to mid 80s?

[Powell]

where did you get this "parents had to say nothing"? there are many families that did not send or took of their children from sport schools cause they did not want them to be athletes, or simply did not want their children to leave.

Was going to say the same thing. I don't believe children were coerced into this against the will of their parents. Or have you got any sources which say that was the case?

[Marlow]

It's absolutely ludicrous to start a thread about the GDR and suggest not mentioning PEDs.

My point was that there was much more to the DDR system than just PEDs, and as a matter of fact, many western countries emulated the advances they made in training that have nothing to do with PEDs. We all know their history with PEDs, but Is it so outrageous to see what they did right ? This is not the Nazis we're talking about. And, as we all know, western athletes were not pure during this time-period also. Dirty is dirty, no matter where the drugs are coming from.

[3]

Perhaps, Mr. Marlow, you could expand on this statment, and provide examples which support your belief of the DDR. Which types of training advances did they make?