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  • track History

    My Men's All Time Top Ten

    100-1.Bob Hayes 2.Carl Lewis 3.Jim Hines 4.Jessie
    Owens 5.Bobby Morrow 6.Maurice Greene 7.Donovan
    Bailey 8.Armin Hary 9.Valeriy Boroz 10.Eddie
    200- 1.Michael Johnson 2.Tommie Smith 3.Pietro
    Mennea 4.Henry Carr 5.Don Quarrie 6.Jessie Owens
    7.Mel Patton 8.Frankie Frederichs 9.Carl Lewis
    10.Calvin Smith
    400- 1.Michael Johnson 2.Lee Evans 3.Herb McKinley 4.Butch Reynolds 5.Alberto Juantornea
    6.Steve Lewis 7.Otis Dav is 8.Larry James 9.Bill
    Carr 10.Lou Jones
    800-1.Peter Snell 2.Sebastian Coe 3.Rudolf Harbig 4.Mal Whitfield 5.Wilson Kipketer 6.Mel
    Sheppard 7.Douglas Lowe 8.Ted Meredith 9.Roger
    Moens 10.Dave Wottle
    1500/Mile- 1.Hiram El Guerrouj 2.Herb Elliott
    3.Sebastian Coe 4.Noureddine Morceli 5.Peter
    Snell 6.John Walker 7.Jim Ryun 8.Roger Bannister
    9.Kip Keino 10.Steve Ovett
    Steeplechase- 1.Anders Garderud 2.Moses Kiptanui
    3.Henry Rono 4.Volmari Isso-Hollo 5.Gaston
    Roelants 6.Bronislaw Malinnowski 7.Zdzislaw
    Kryszkowiak 8.Horace Ashenfelter 9.Wilson Boit
    Kipketer 10.Ben Jipcho
    5000- 1.Vladmir Kuts 2.Said Aouita 3.Ron Clarke
    4.Hallie Gebrselaasie 5.Lasse Viren 6.Paavo Nurmi 7.Emil Zatopek 8.Ville Ritola 9.Ismaei
    Kurui 10.Kip Keino
    10,000- 1.Hallie Gebrselassie 2.Emil Zatopek
    3.Lasse Viren 4.Paavo Nurmi 5.Ron Clarke 6.
    Vladmir Kuts 7.Miruts Yifgter 8.Ville Ritola
    9.Billy Mills 10.Naftali Temu
    Marathon- 1.Abebe Bikilia 2.Wlademar Ciepinski
    3.Frank Shorter 4.Carlos Lopez 5.Derek Clayton 6.Khalid Khannouchi 7. 6.Bill Rodgers 8.Jim Peters
    9.Abel Anton 10.Rob de Castella
    20K Walk- 1.Vladmir Golubnichly 2.Daniel Bautista
    3.Maurizio Damilano 4.Ernest Canto 5.Peter Frenkel6.Jozef Pribillinec 7.Ken Matthews 8.Jef-
    ferson Perez 9.Hans Reiman 10.Robert Korzeniowski
    50K Walk- 1.Robet Korzeniowski 2.Raul Gonzales
    3.Venjamin Soldaenko 4.John Ljungren 5.Hartwig Gauder 6.Bernd Kanneberg 7.Abdon Pamich 8.Andrey Perlov 9.Don Thompson 10.Christopher ohne
    110 Hurdles-1.Roger Kingdom 2.Lee Calhoun 3.Rod
    Milburn 4.Willie Davenport 5.Renaldo Nehemiah
    6.Colin Jackso 7.Greg Foster 8.Forrest Tow ns
    9.Allen Johnson 10.Harrison Dillard
    400 BHurdles-1.Edwin Moses 2.Glenn Davis 3.John
    Aki-Bua 4.Kevin Young 5.Dave Hemery 6.Roy Cochran
    7.Glenn Hardin 8.Andre Phillips 9.Harry Hillman
    10.Danny Harris
    High Jump- 1.Valeriy Brumel 2.Javier Sotomayor
    3.Dwight Stones 4.John Thomas 5.Gennadiy Avdeyenko 6.Dick Fosbury 7.Charlie Dumas 8.Vladmir Yashchenko 9.Jacek Wszola 10.Charles
    Pole V ault- 1.Sergey Bubka 2.Corneluis Warmerdam
    3.Bob Richards 4.Bob Seagren 5.Wolfgang Nordwig
    6.Wladslaw Kozakiewicz 7.John Pennel 8.Don Bragg
    9.Thierry Vigneron 10.Charles Hoff
    Long Jump- 1.Carl Lewis 2.Ralph Boston 3.Igor
    Ter-Ovanesyan 4.Jessie Owens 5.Bob Beamon 6.
    Ivan Pedroso 7.Randy Williams 8.Mike Powell 9.
    Greg Bell 10.Myer Prinstein
    Triple Jump- 1.Viktor Saneyev 2.Adhemar Da Silva
    3.Jozef Schmidt 4.Jonathon Edwards 5.Kenny Harriso 6.Mike Conley 7.Willie Banks 8.Chuhie
    Nambu 9.Daniel Ahearn 10.Naoto Tajima
    Shot Put- 1.Parry O'Brien 2.Ulf Timmermann 3.Udo
    Beyer 4.Randy Matson 5.Randy Barnes 6.Dallas Long
    7.Jack Torrance 8.Werner Gunthor 9.Bill Neider
    10.Brian Oldfield
    Discus Throw- 1.Al Oerter 2.Mac Wilkens 3.Lars
    Riedel 4.Jay Silvester 5.Fortune Gordien 6.Adolfo
    Consolini 7.Jurgen Schult 8.Ludvik Danek 9.
    Wolfgang Schmidt 10.Bud Houser
    Hammer Throw-1.Yuriy Syedikh 2.Hal Connolly 3.John Flanagan 4.Gyula Zsivotzky 5.Anotoliy
    Bondarchuk 6.Sergey Litvinov 7.Pat O'Callaghan
    8.Mikhail Krivonosov 9.Karl Hans Reihm 10.Andrey
    Javelin Throw- 1.Jan Zelezny 2.Janis Lusis 3.Matti Jarvinen 4.Erik Leming 5.Uwe Hohn 6.Janusz Sidlo 7.Bud Held 8.Klaus Wolfermann 9.
    Egil Danielson 10.Jonni Myyra
    Decathalon- 1.Daley Thompson 2.Bob Mathias 3.
    Rafer Johnson 4.Bruce Jennner 5.Jim Thorpe
    6.Tomas Dvoark 7.Nikolay Avilov 8.Dan O'Brien
    9.Bill Toomey 10.Jurgen Hingsen

  • #2
    Re: track History

    Man, that's detailed. But at least it gets away from the other history thread, with arguments over dirt tracks, and the Ryun fans arguing with the Ryun hater Squires.


    • #3
      Re: track History

      Without doing any serious research on this, here are some random thoughts:

      I'd put Oldfield higher and Timmermann lower in the shot. If you include Cierpinski, you must include Ben Johnson, etc

      I wouldn't include Bannister or Beamon - take away their respective great performances and they aren't strong candidates

      I'd put Owens (lj), Fredericks (200m) Edwards (tj) Schult (dt) Conley (tj) higher
      O'Brien and Thorpe should be above Jenner
      Powell above Pedroso; no worse than 3rd all-time
      Myricks above Bell
      I'd put Paddock and Christie in the top (100m) and take Hary out
      I'd include Mal Whitfield (400m), Steve Cram (1500m) Harald Schmid (400h), Patrick Sjoberg (HJ)

      Just my thoughts for what they are worth. Nice material.


      • #4
        Re: track History

        I wouldn't include Bannister or Beamon -
        >take away their respective great performances and
        >they aren't strong candidates

        Well, just for the sake of argument, i believe Beamon was completely undefeated during his '68 season.


        • #5
          Re: track History

          Not to put too fine a point on it, but isn't being undefeated like being pregnant? As in, you is or you ain't, no "completely" required.


          • #6
            Re: track History

            Are you the kid doing the same thing over on letsrun?


            • #7
              Re: track History

              >Man, that's detailed. But at least it gets away
              >from the other history thread, with arguments
              >over dirt tracks, and the Ryun fans arguing with
              >the Ryun hater Squires.

              I don't hate Ryun. I just don't think he's ready for sainthood. He had two great seasons, then won an Olympic silver medal, and that's all he did. I don't think that qualifies him as "The Greatest Miler That God Could Create", but I suppose my view would be different if Ryun had been my boyhood idol. I base my subjective evaluations of greatness on career accomplishments, and Ryun's are roughly equal to at least half a dozen of history's milers -- and despite the fact that Ryun was clearly better than Keino for a short period, Keino simply has more career accomplishments.

              As far as evaluations of talent, I've coached long enough to know that when you talk about someone's talent, it's because they didn't fulfill it. No one talks about Al Oerter's talent, instead they talk about four gold medals. (The baseball coach next door, who has coached two state champs and one national champ, has a sign that says "A lot of players have 'potential' written on their tombstones. It means they didn't do anything.")

              Finally, it's Squire, not Squires. There's only one of me.


              • #8
                Re: track History

                >My Men's All Time Top Ten

                100-1.Bob Hayes
                >2.Carl Lewis 3.Jim Hines 4.Jessie
                Owens 5.Bobby
                >Morrow 6.Maurice Greene 7.Donovan
                Bailey 8.Armin
                >Hary 9.Valeriy Boroz 10.Eddie

                On what grounds are you making these rankings? I'll simply quote someone else -- LA Times trackwriter Maxwell Stiles ranked history's greatest sprnters in the mid-1950s, and he had Morrow, Davis and Metcalfe all ahead of Owens. He picked a #1 man for each year in both the 100 and 200, and Owens was #1 only in 1936. I might be accused of heresy (or even being an "Owens hater") but I think he's highly overrated in the 100.

                On the other hand, I think he is underrated in the 200 and very underrated in the long jump. He jumped 21'11" in the seventh grade! I might add that I've been designated the official historian of Ohio track & field by the state coaches' association, so I'm hardly an objective observer.

                In the long jump, I think you overlooked William DeHart Hubbard. He was the world's top jumper each year from 1921 to 1926. In "Quest for Gold", Bill Mallon and Ian Buchanan called him "undoubtedly the greatest long jumper of the pre-Owens era". Again, he was from Cincinatti, so I'm a bit biased.


                • #9
                  Re: track History

                  I may be a bit biased, but i would probably put Allen Johnson as the #1 hurdler, and i know several fellow hurdlers who agree. Certainly if he had been completely healthy in 2000 and had won the gold in Sydney, there would be no question. Right now, Kingdom's largest feat, i suppose you could say, was his two golds. Had AJ equaled THAT, he'd be far ahead of Kingdom overall, easily. Look at the all-time lists (i know that doesn't matter much, especially when comparing him to hurdlers of decades past, but in terms of comparing him to the semi-current Kingdom, i'd say it works). AJ has a ton of the top times.

                  AJ also crushes Colin Jackson in terms of all-time head-to-head battles. Add to that his World Championships, indoors and out, the fact that he twice agonizingly came within 0.01 seconds of Jackson's world record in the same summer, and that he broke Kingdom's OR in Atlanta, and i gotta give the nod to AJ.

                  Or at the very LEAST, give him the edge over Kingdom. Perhaps some of you could make a case for someone like Dillard or Foster, but i still say AJ is #1. Nehemiah may have been able to take that honor, had he actually stuck with the sport, and had the US not boycotted Moscow.


                  • #10
                    Re: track History

                    >I may be a bit biased, but i would probably put
                    Allen Johnson as the #1 hurdler<

                    I've seen all of those guys except for Towns, and my vote would be for Nehemiah. Of course, I'm voting on the basis of who was the best, not who won the most significatn races. I think Nehemian would have beaten all of those guys. If it weren't for the Olympic boycott, he would have won the gold in 1980 for sure, and if he hadn't switched to the NFL, I think the world record would be in the 12.80's and he'd still be the record holder. Behind Nehemiah, I'd go with Dillard, Johnson, Jackson, and Kingdom to round out my top 5.


                    • #11
                      Re: track History

                      >and if he hadn't
                      >switched to the NFL, I think the world record
                      >would be in the 12.80's and he'd still be the
                      >record holder.

                      Then again, if AJ hadn't crashed hurdle number 10, the stats clearly show he would've run about 12.85.


                      • #12
                        Re: track History

                        Check that, i meant 12.80.


                        • #13
                          Re: track History

                          If you are so inclined, I'd love to hear how you arrived at the 20k & 50k walk rankings.


                          • #14
                            Re: track History

                            Just to throw out some data to support the argument about Nehemiah . . .

                            Is there another (men's) running event where the current WR has changed as little in 22 years as the 110 hurdles?


                            • #15
                              Re: track History

                              400 meters..Evans, Reynolds & MJ