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  • Oldest record

    The 4x1500 got me wondering what the oldest record in athletics is. The oldest WR is in the women indoor SP (1977). The oldest Area Record is:800 Metres 1:44.3 Peter Snell 17/12/1938 NZL Christchurch 03/02/1962.

    But are there older (national) records? Anybody any suggestions?

  • #2
    Haitian Record of 7.83 by Sylvio Cator in '28 is always a good place to start. I suspect if you mined a list of LJ marks you'd find a lot of ancient gems, since it's the event with the least change historically speaking.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by gh
      Haitian Record of 7.83 by Sylvio Cator in '28 is always a good place to start. I suspect if you mined a list of LJ marks you'd find a lot of ancient gems, since it's the event with the least change historically speaking.
      How is it that the depth of the 100 and the HJ have progressed so far and the LJ, not so much? Obviously it must be the event where natural talent counts the most, but why more than something like the 100? If we ascribe the 100's progress to faster tracks and more technical training methods, why not the same in the LJ?

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      • #4
        Some old South America AR's:

        800m: Joaquim Carvalho Cruz BRA (1.41.77) Koln. 26-08-1984
        Decathlon: Tito Steiner ARG (8291) Provo, UT. 23-06-1983
        100m: Robson Caetano Da Silva BRA (10.00) Ciudad de Mexico. 22-07-1988

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        • #5
          Originally posted by gh
          Haitian Record of 7.83 by Sylvio Cator in '28 is always a good place to start. I suspect if you mined a list of LJ marks you'd find a lot of ancient gems, since it's the event with the least change historically speaking.
          Peter O'Connor's WR from 1901 survived even longer as the Irish record - it was beaten in 1990 - after 89 years :!:
          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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          • #6
            This is a highly interesting thread.

            1:44.3 Peter Snell 17/12/1938 NZL Christchurch 03/02/1962.
            That's truly amazing. That's a great time still, and would not shame a fella at any meet, I'd think.


            I'm fascinated by the men's Field records all being 13 or more years old. Two of them are 23 years old!

            Is it lack of interest, simply the ebb & flow of sports, what? Are the best athletes who combine brute strength and explosiveness going into other sports?
            You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gh
              Haitian Record of 7.83 by Sylvio Cator in '28 is always a good place to start. I suspect if you mined a list of LJ marks you'd find a lot of ancient gems, since it's the event with the least change historically speaking.
              79 years old, thanks, amazing, btw on wiki I found the WR he set was 7.93.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by scottmitchell74
                This is a highly interesting thread.

                1:44.3 Peter Snell 17/12/1938 NZL Christchurch 03/02/1962.
                That's truly amazing. That's a great time still, and would not shame a fella at any meet, I'd think.


                I'm fascinated by the men's Field records all being 13 or more years old. Two of them are 23 years old!

                Is it lack of interest, simply the ebb & flow of sports, what? Are the best athletes who combine brute strength and explosiveness going into other sports?
                I think that when there is no "techonological" improvement (like in swimming) it is all about waiting until a "freak" talent arrives. Usain Bolt is such a freak talent. Bubka and Zelezny were freak talents in their events.

                Of course, a lot of interest in a special event helps to bring talent into the spot light. For example, these days nobody seems really interested in the mens hammer throw.

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                • #9
                  We went over this topic a few years ago.

                  http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... hp?t=2992&

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    Originally posted by gh
                    Haitian Record of 7.83 by Sylvio Cator in '28 is always a good place to start. I suspect if you mined a list of LJ marks you'd find a lot of ancient gems, since it's the event with the least change historically speaking.
                    How is it that the depth of the 100 and the HJ have progressed so far and the LJ, not so much? Obviously it must be the event where natural talent counts the most, but why more than something like the 100? If we ascribe the 100's progress to faster tracks and more technical training methods, why not the same in the LJ?
                    I wondered if your assumption was right.
                    I grabbed the ATFS Annual concerning the 1979 season (3 decades ago).

                    Comparing ATWL 1979 vs. 2009 (current) season

                    Progression Level top-50 in 100m from 10.22 tot 9.97 = 0.25 = 2,45%.
                    Progression Level top-50 in LJ from 8.10m to 8.38m = 0.28m = 3.46%.

                    Progression of WRs in 100m from 9.95 (A) to 9,58 = 0.37 = 3.72%.
                    Progression of WRs in LJ from 8.90 to 8.95 = 0.05 = 0.56%.

                    So IMHO there's here an optical illusion at work. Bob Beamon is to blame.

                    But in one aspect you're of cause right. Long Jumping is a natural ability.

                    Due to much more effective training methods it's now much easier to surpass marks of Paavo Nurmi or runners of the era of Jesse Owens than to jump further than Jesse himself.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Marlow
                      Originally posted by gh
                      Haitian Record of 7.83 by Sylvio Cator in '28 is always a good place to start. I suspect if you mined a list of LJ marks you'd find a lot of ancient gems, since it's the event with the least change historically speaking.
                      How is it that the depth of the 100 and the HJ have progressed so far and the LJ, not so much? Obviously it must be the event where natural talent counts the most, but why more than something like the 100? If we ascribe the 100's progress to faster tracks and more technical training methods, why not the same in the LJ?
                      The LJ lends itself to big increments, since a record can be set on any jump. In the verticals, the bar has to be set at the record height, and jumpers rarely request more than the minimum increment of 1 cm. Of course this argument is inconsistent with the recent pattern of 100m improvements ...

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                      • #12
                        Found this yesterday thinking about the oldest national record. 1940 Afghanistan LJ 7.05m by Mohammed Anwar. He also jumped 12.99m TJ in the same year.

                        Then there is the DT 39.90m in 1941 by Abdoul Hakim.

                        Seems like if any athlete from here wanted three National records all they would have to do is -- do them. Ha!
                        Last edited by proofs in the pudd'in; 06-07-2019, 05:03 PM.

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                        • #13
                          The LJ isn't that bad; and the DT, while it would get demolished by most countries' national-level throwers, isn't completely hopeless either. Looking at the NCAA deca this year, 10 of 23 decathletes beat the LJ mark and 7 of 18 beat the DT mark (of course decathletes today tend to be speed-types rather than thrower types).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LopenUupunut View Post
                            The LJ isn't that bad; and the DT, while it would get demolished by most countries' national-level throwers, isn't completely hopeless either. Looking at the NCAA deca this year, 10 of 23 decathletes beat the LJ mark and 7 of 18 beat the DT mark (of course decathletes today tend to be speed-types rather than thrower types).
                            True! A recent decathlete from Afghanistan jumped 6.66m in 2016. I bet that messed with his mind.

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                            • #15
                              Not anymore

                              Originally posted by Powell View Post
                              Peter O'Connor's WR from 1901 survived even longer as the Irish record - it was beaten in 1990 - after 89 years :!:
                              now Cator really has the longevity record, 91 years !

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