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Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

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  • Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

    On this board, I have never heard of this great
    champion... and very often read threads about
    some new Steve SCOTT, the new Jim SPIVEY or any
    new Bob KENNEDY or new Jim RYUN...
    Does anyone know that Sydney MAREE remains as the
    first and only sub-3"30 1500m US miler, and was
    among the best 5000m runners of his time?
    This is a real mystery to me.

  • #2
    Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

    wasn't maree the fist american under 13??

    I think so, and kennedy took his record...

    I'm in philly so all the drama about maree and his life in south africa and then transition to school at villanova and adjusting to life in america are within my direct experience...

    ..perhaps there is a bias due to him NOT being native born american...

    Does anyone know what he's doing now??

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

      No I don't think Maree broke 13. I believe it was 13:02 which Kennedy broke - I may be mistaken.

      Also, Maree's lack of popularity in the US stems from him being foreign-born. He became a US citizen after he was already a world class athlete.

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      • #4
        Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

        I am nearly certain, Maree had never gone under 13.
        "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
        by Thomas Henry Huxley

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        • #5
          Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

          Marie ran 13.01,15 for #2 time in the world in 1985 behind Said Aouita:s 13.00,40.

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          • #6
            Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

            Maree rabbited a 3,000m race for Aouita, Ondieki and Barrios in Europe (I want to say Malmö, but I am not sure) in the late 80s, a race in which he held the lead until 250 meters remaining. Went out in 4.02 first 1,600m, but couldn t hold lead. Aouita won in 7.43, and two weeks later ran a WR 7.29,45.

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            • #7
              Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

              Maree was just too inconsistent to be classed as a truly "great" runner. He posted some blazing times, of course, but his record otherwise is very spotty.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                Part of Maree's "spotty" record was due to his being banned from major competition for a large portion of his career. Psychologically it really had to hurt that there will be no Olympics, WC, CG and African Champs. His PRs 3:29.77, 3:48.83, 4:54.20, 3:33.37 & 13:01.15 were ARs at the time, and the 1500 and mile were winning efforts. What I can't remember is when he attained US citizenship, and when he was cleared to complete for the US.

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                • #9
                  Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                  Strange ruling on banning a black South African. I have never understood the logic behind the banning of black and mixed race atheletes from this country prior to Apartheid ending.......

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                    >Part of Maree's "spotty" record was due to his being banned from major
                    >competition for a large portion of his career. Psychologically it really had
                    >to hurt that there will be no Olympics, WC, CG and African Champs. His PRs
                    >3:29.77, 3:48.83, 4:54.20, 3:33.37 & 13:01.15 were ARs at the time, and the
                    >1500 and mile were winning efforts. What I can't remember is when he attained
                    >US citizenship, and when he was cleared to complete for the US.

                    Maree became a US citizen in early 1984.

                    Maree first competed for the US at the '83 Worlds, and was eliminated in the semifinals at 1500m. He set the world record a few weeks after.

                    He finished 3rd at the '84 Olympic Trials, but a nagging hamstring caused him to withdraw from the games. He pulled out at the last minute, which caused some controversy at the time as he waited until it was too late for Trials 4th placer Chuck Aragon to take his place on the team.

                    Maree qualified for the '87 Worlds & '88 Olympics at 5000 Meters, so he never missed a major at the peak of his career. He was a Ron Clarke type runner who ran some very fast times, but was not as successful at championship meets.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                      Spot on. Except that Maree was no where near as good (or obviously as consistent) as Ron Clarke. Maree seemed to run brilliantly when it really didn't matter. When it DID matter, he was a no-show.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                        Maree's first international competing for the U.S. was the '81 World Cup in Rome, where he was 5th in the 1500. He was allowed to compete by the IAAF because he had begun the process of obtaining U.S. citizenship, and because he had no possibility to compete for his native South Africa.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                          Just for fun, it's "Pariah."
                          We used to call the old Nike racing this after the first guy we knew to get one ran really badly in his first race wearing them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                            79 -

                            About Maree. It's good to bring him back to our attention, b/c he was a very good runner.

                            A couple of comments on the posts on him:

                            1. The comparison w Kennedy is invited by your post. I scanned the lists to compare their 5000 times. Kennedy has run the following sub-13:15:
                            12.58.21, 12.58.75, 13.02.93, 13.03.37, 13.03.57, 13.04.04, 13.05.18, 13.05.54, 13.05.93, 13.06.12, 13.06.62, 13.08.43
                            13.09.64, 13.12.14, 13.12.35, 13.12.98
                            13.14.91
                            That's 17 sub 13:15.

                            Maree's sub 13:15 list:
                            13.01.15, 13.13.84, 13.14.62

                            There are many ways to compare athletes, and no piece of evidence finally decides "who was better" but this comparison, at 5000, certainly favors Kennedy. Maree, of course, raced well at other distances, but the Kennedy mention suggests a 5000 comparison.

                            Kennedy's list also shows his dominance of US 5000 running in a way that a simple all-time best list doesn't show. After Kennedy and Maree, the next performers on the US list are Goucher, Keflezghi (sp), and Salazar, all at 13:11. Kennedy has run faster than that 13 times.

                            2. Shifting the subject, someone else suggested Maree might be ignored b/c he was not "native born American." I don't know in Maree's case, and of course these things are hard to figure out anyway, but it does happen, sad to say. In 93 when Plaatjes won WC marathon gold, many of the guys I trained with dismissed/ignored his race b/c, as they said, "he wasn't a real American." No doubt someone has thought this about Maree as well. An unfortunate point of view, I think.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is Sydney MAREE a paria or what ?...

                              In the miserable and pathetic condition we're now in, I have a feeling we'd be relatively happy to claim just about anyone as an "American." The bottom line is that Maree was just too erratic to be that historically significant. Fast times alone just don't cut it: remember Fernando Mamede? (Not that many do!) Kennedy, by comparison, was considerably more consistent than Maree. He could run with the best week after week even if he didn't win against them all the time.

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