Now That's An Upset

[Jake]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I don't recall there being a question about her sex. Her problem was she was from North Korea, a non-IAAF country, and therefore ineligible for WR status or competition at the OG.

It was before my time too, but I'll quote from "The Olympics at the millennium: power, politics, and the games" (Kay Schaffer, Sidonie Smith): The story appears less frequently about Sin Kim Dan who.......was apparently revealed to be male when his father identified him as a son he had thought lost in the war (Ferris 1992, Noble 1976)

I think s/he did get at least one ratified WR before she was banned after competing at an unsanctioned meet (63?) which if I remember right was called 'The Games of the New Emerging Forces'.

That story about her being male is nonsense. She was pronounced '100 per cent woman' by Japanese doctors (at the Tokyo Oympics) and later married and had two children. ('Athletics 2008' by ATFS, pp 111-114.)

She set eight 'world records' (inc 1.58.0 for 800m in Sept 1964) but for bureaucratic reasons only one (the 51.9 for 400m from Oct 1962) was ratified by the IAAF. This was either because North Korea was not affiliated to the IAAF or she was suspended for taking part in the banned GANEFO meeting. The suspension meant she and five team-mates were unable to compete at the 1964 Olympics, despite their journey to Japan in an attempt to do so.

A very unfortunate story and it's clear a real talent was denied its full desserts. Let's not forget that her official 400m WR lasted six years and her unofficial WR for 800m (1.58.0) eight.

[Vault-emort]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I don't recall there being a question about her sex. Her problem was she was from North Korea, a non-IAAF country, and therefore ineligible for WR status or competition at the OG.

It was before my time too, but I'll quote from "The Olympics at the millennium: power, politics, and the games" (Kay Schaffer, Sidonie Smith): The story appears less frequently about Sin Kim Dan who.......was apparently revealed to be male when his father identified him as a son he had thought lost in the war (Ferris 1992, Noble 1976)

I think s/he did get at least one ratified WR before she was banned after competing at an unsanctioned meet (63?) which if I remember right was called 'The Games of the New Emerging Forces'.

[Powell]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I don't recall there being a question about her sex.

She competed long before I was born, but I've heard a lot of questions.

[dj]

Re: Now That's An Upset

Sin Kim Dan WR/B for 400m and 800m (if you think s/he's eligible)

I don't recall there being a question about her sex. Her problem was she was from North Korea, a non-IAAF country, and therefore ineligible for WR status or competition at the OG.

[Vault-emort]

Re: Now That's An Upset

There were quite a few in the 60s who ran both events well, although only a couple managed to get double medals in a championship. These were still developing events of course - and so possibly more likely, although the best times of around 52 seconds and 2-01 (mainly on cinders or grass) are still pretty respectable these days.

Judy Pollock (bronze 64 400m) WR for 440y and 880y and 800m
Dixie Willis WR for 440y and 880y and 800m
Sin Kim Dan WR/B for 400m and 800m (if you think s/he's eligible)
Lilian Board (silver 68 400m) showed great potential for 800m with her European Champs win
Vera Nikolic also ran a pretty good 400m
Probably some others too

PS Who had the nickname 'beans'? - was it Brightwell or Packer?

[Master Po]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I knew of her because of her 800m victory -- somehow missed altogether that she earned a medal in the 400.

I don't mean to divert this from consideration of Ann Packer, but here is a related question -- which I also should know, but don't:

How common are women's 400/800 doubles (any medals) at OG or WC? They probably happen regularly, and so I will feel like an idiot for not remembering any at the moment. But as I am accustomed to feeling like an idiot, please do not hesitate to reply.

Only two accomplished such doublers come to my mind - Jarmila Kratochvílová and Ana Quirot.

Thanks Pego. I knew that once I saw the names, I would have another of my "d'oh!" moments. Even factoring in whatever one might wish to regarding historical eras in women's athletics, that puts Packer in rare company.

[Double R Bar]

Re: Now That's An Upset

The Olympic 400 for women started in Tokyo, 1964 and the Olympic 800 for women began in 1928, but was dropped until Rome in 1960. I think the 400/800 double is much more difficult than the 800/1,500 double. I don't think many women made the 400/800 double.

[Pego]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I knew of her because of her 800m victory -- somehow missed altogether that she earned a medal in the 400.

I don't mean to divert this from consideration of Ann Packer, but here is a related question -- which I also should know, but don't:

How common are women's 400/800 doubles (any medals) at OG or WC? They probably happen regularly, and so I will feel like an idiot for not remembering any at the moment. But as I am accustomed to feeling like an idiot, please do not hesitate to reply.

Only two accomplished such doublers come to my mind - Jarmila Kratochvílová and Ana Quirot.

[Master Po]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I knew of her because of her 800m victory -- somehow missed altogether that she earned a medal in the 400.

I don't mean to divert this from consideration of Ann Packer, but here is a related question -- which I also should know, but don't:

How common are women's 400/800 doubles (any medals) at OG or WC? They probably happen regularly, and so I will feel like an idiot for not remembering any at the moment. But as I am accustomed to feeling like an idiot, please do not hesitate to reply.

[Conor Dary]

Re: Now That's An Upset

Packer is featured in Tokyo Olympiad, with her running to her future hubby right after the race.

[Double R Bar]

Re: Now That's An Upset

Jake, you got it. Congratulations and happy birthday today to Ann Packer. I remember her 800 victory in Tokyo very well. I use to think (when I was very young) that women could run no farther than two laps; at least that's what the IOC would have me believe. What a change from 1964! By the way, Ann set a world record in winning her gold medal at 2:01.1. Pretty good time, even in 2010. Her silver medal was in the 400.

[mump boy]

Re: Now That's An Upset

never heard of anne packer ?? sacrilege :shock:

[Jake]

Re: Now That's An Upset

I was surprised too, Daisy, especially as she was the first British woman to win an Olympic track title.

[Daisy]

Re: Now That's An Upset

Ann Packer, who married Robbie Brightwell. Very easy for British fans.

Are you sure? I find it surprising that marlow has never heard of Packer, especially after Holmes' relatively recent win in the 800 and in light of the recent Mary Rand birthday thread here.

[Jake]

Re: Now That's An Upset

Ann Packer, who married Robbie Brightwell. Very easy for British fans.