GOAT- womens 100m

[mump boy]

My gut tells me Evelyn or Marlies with Evelyn getting the nod

but that is with no research at all because it's 4 in the morning :?

i'll come back with a more definitive answer later

[guru]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

Ashford a good call, but I'm going with Wilma Rudolph, though it's incredibly close.

It would have been interesting to see what Rudolph might have done against Tyus in '64, and especially in the rare air of '68, had she not retired in '62 at the tender age of 22. Better yet, think if she were born a generation later. The mind fairly boggles at the thought of Ashford and Rudolph going at it in the 80's, both in full prime, Rudolph with the advantages coming up she didn't have in the 50's.

[Rog]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

Some contenders from 60 onwards:

Rudolph
Tyus
Stecher
Gohr
Ashford
Devers

Is Ottey eligible? I'm thinking not... what about athletes from before that era? Fanny and the great Australians, like Jackson and Cuthbert?

Does the Sina Schielke fan still post here?

[John G]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

Hard to separate Ashford and Gohr. Gohr had more TFN #1s and more WRs but Ashford ended up running faster, beat her in the major head to heads (79 and 81 WCups and Zurich 84) and had the greater longevity(was world ranked from 76 til 92). OK, Gohr won their biggest race - Helsinki 83 - but Ashford pulled up injured. Gohr's loss to Kondratyeva in 80 and failure to pick up a OG title was also a slight blotch on her record.

Hard to ignore those Stasi files as well.

I'd rank Tyus 3rd and Devers 4th. Thing about Devers was, despite her great championship record, I was never sure she was even the best W100 runner of her day.

[Flumpy]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

I'm pretty certain Merlene is eligible but she's impossible to rank. As is Gail who has all the medals but never convinced me of her greatness outside those particular races (It was always as if Merlene lost rather than Gail won if that makes any sense).

The top 3 in my opinion are clearly Marlies, Evelyn and Renate with my vote probably just about going to Marlies.

1 - Marlies
2 - Evelyn
3 - Renate

The rest I'll have to look into.

[deanouk]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

I'd probably go for Ashford, just over Gohr.
Ashford had the misfortune of running against Flo Jo in 88, and without going into controversial territory (I never know how far I can go on this site?), I think Ashford should have won her second Olympic gold. Having said that, Gohr was denied the chance of competing in 84 due to the boycott.
It's a shame Gohr was forced to run a heat in Zurich 84, while Ashford didn't. If she hadn't run that heat, she'd likely have been closer to Ashford in the final, and who knows, may have even beaten her!

1. Ashford
2. Gohr
3. Stecher

[mump boy]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

To clarify Merlene is eligible she was never banned for failing a drug test but she get's nowhere near the GOAT spot as despite all her medals she has no golds at that event.

I'm sticking with my 4am drunken debut post

Evelyn
Marlies
Renate

Marlies loses the top spot for not grabbing her OG opportunity in 80 (but then again Evelyn has no WC medals :? )

I can't rank Gail high i'm afraid, despite all the gold medals she barely ever won anything on the circuit. I know winning on the big occasion is what it's all about but she was completely dominated by Merlene and Gwen in all their other races. You have to have both to be high on the GOAT list

[mump boy]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

because i obviously have nothing better to do


Merlene was 11-6 against Gail http://www.jakobweb.dk/ottey/web/jmno-headtoheadUSA.htm

so outside of champs Merlene wins 8-3

[Rog]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

I agree that it comes down to Stecher, Gohr and Ashford. Stecher in particular was before my time, but she seems to have been very dominant at both sprints. Over 100 however I don't think she had quite the longevity to equal Ashford and Gohr.

I remember when this subject came up before that I thought Ashford had a slight edge over Gohr, but having thought about it I have reconsidered and would now go for Marlies. Why?

- first automatic sub 11
- 3 world records
- 13 consecutive top 10 rankings
- 9 consecutive years at either 1 or 2
- 6 no 1s
- first world title in the biggest 100 of the 80s
- 3 consecutive European titles in the days when this realy meant something.

The 3 blemishes are her loss in Olympics 80, her loss to Ashford in Zurich 84, and her failure to reach finals in 87 and 88. These though all came under mitigating circumstances:

- Olympics 80 - reading the T&FN Oly 80 issue the amount of cheating the Soviet officialdom carried out is quite astonishing - the Soviet Scandal, as it was known. Gohr, as a clear favourite in opposition to a key Soviet hope, was given faulty blocks. Scrutiny of the final shows that the pattern of Gohr's race is unlike any other peak run of her career - she gets a good start and then slumps down the field before sweeping back through. In any other major race at her peak she would be at the front in the early stages before pulling away. She appears to be disadvantaged to the best part of a tenth of a second, and only lost by 1/100th, so despite not winning the gold I maintain she was still the best sprinter on the day (just like Campbell was the best triple jumper, Delis the best discus thrower etc). If you want to see what form Gohr was really in, watch the relay, where she really sparkled on the anchor and looks to have broken 10 seconds.

- Zurich 84 - the fact that Gohr had to qualify for a final, whereas Ashford didn't, clearly takes away from the fairness of this race. Had they met in an Olympic final I think the story may have been different as Gohr would have been better prepared to run 4 rounds and would have been fully peaked. Having read Marita Koch's recent interview, I was struck by her claim that she didn't train flat out in 84 without an Olympic incentive, and Gohr was clearly upset too, to the point that she threw away the baton in the Friendship Games relay, which was a very overt form of rebellion for an East German athlete. I'm fully certain there must have been a lot of pressure placed on her as a result, which can't have helped her prepare for Zurich. I don't think Gohr was 100% in Zurich anyway as she didn't explode midrace as she was able to at her peak - in an Olympic race however, I see her being fully motivated for gold after her disillusion in 80, and racing Ashford in the USA would have added an extra edge. Whether this would have made the difference between gold and silver we won't ever know...

- 87, 88 - Gohr started 87 in great form, winning the Euro Cup with one of her greatest runs, but she was obviously carrying an injury from which she didn't ever fully recover. She broke down in a race immediately after but was forced to go to Rome 87 when far from peak form. It can' have sat well to be resigned to also-ran status for the first time in over a decade, and can't have done her confidence any good for the remainder of her career either. Had she been from another country I think she would have curtailed her 87 season after the injury (or not raced when she was at such an obvious risk - in the 87 GDR v USSR relay she was clearly in agony after she crossed the line), rested and returned in good form in 88, where an inform Gohr could have taken silver behind FloJo, but that option wasn't available to her.

All in all though a remarkable career, for me enough to edge her ahead of Ashford and Stecher.

[Flumpy]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

That's kinda my take as well.

I place them pretty much equal on champs success but Marlies has those 3 WR's + 6 No1's to Evelyn's 2 and 3 (I think).

[Deerfoot]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

I'd probably go for Wyomia Tyus as my No.1, but surely Fanny Blankers-Koen deserves some love? Olympic gold in 1948, European gold in 1950(which would have meant a lot more then than it does now), plus world records at both 100m and 100 yards.
I realise the competition has become a lot stiffer since then, but she has a pretty impressive record.

[TN1965]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

Once we start considering "what if" scenarios, it is hard not to think what Fanny Blankers-Koen might have done in 1940 and 1944 Olympics.

But I'd stick with what actually happened, and my vote goes to Ashford.

[gh]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

I'm afraid I'd have to think about including Rudolph on the all-overrated team. Largely a product of the "oh my god she came back from polio as a kid" tear-jerker that colors her real achievements. Not as if she rewrote the recordbooks and dominated for an extended period of time.

[Marlow]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

my vote goes to Ashford.

Mine too.

[mump boy]

Re: GOAT- womens 100m

if your going for evelyn can you explain your reasoning please i'm kind of edging towards Marlies again !!

also the lack of love for wyomia is suprising usually 2 OG would rank high on the list especially as only 2 people have done it but i'm not sure she has much to back up those wins and there are 3 people with over all superior records so i'm afaid she has slipped between the cracks