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'83 NCAAs

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  • '83 NCAAs

    I'm trying to recall this from memory without referring to any of the lists or media guides. Do I have this right? Tennessee is on its way to winning a national title but reliable Rickey Pittman stumbles on a barrier on the last lap of steeple, allowing either Washington State or UTEP to win title. Is this an accurate recollection of the event?

  • #2
    Re: '83 NCAAs

    I was there, but I don't recall that. Of course, not being a Vol, I'd be less likely to than you. I could look it up, but presumably you could to. If you need help, let us know.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: '83 NCAAs

      Tennessee lost to SMU, 104-102, under a 12-place scoring system which was used in 1982 and '83.

      The favorites in the steeple were Washington State's Julius Korir and Richard Tuwei. Michigan winner Brian Diemer was in the lead and pulling away at the last water jump when Pittman belly-flopped. Korir was even with Pittman, and wound up 2nd. Tuwei was a stride behind and finished 3rd, not worrying about a homestretch kick as Diemer was not going to be caught and Tuwei was better than three seconds ahead of eventual 4th-placer Farley Gerber. My suspicion is that the only place Pittman lost was 4th, to Gerber.

      The I can't find the scoring system, although I know it was 15 points for first, and 12 places scored. It could have been 15-12-10-9-8 etc., or 15-13-11-9-8 etc. Either way, Pittman lost only one point, and Tennessee lost by two.

      The key was that SMU did everything the formchart projected for the last day, including wins for Mike Carter (SP) and Keith Connor (TJ), a 3rd for Roald Bradstock (JT) and a 4th in the 4x400.

      Here's a portion of Bert Nelson's 4x400 story:

      "Tennessee was in the barn with 102 points but had no relay team. Southern Methodist had the only chance to catch the Vols, needing at least 5th to do so.
      "The drama wasted no time in beginning. At the first exchange zone it was obvious SMU was not only in last place but was also a distant last.
      "Leslie Brooks was held out of the qualifying heat after re-straining a previously bad leg. In the final, he almost had to stop at 200m but gutted out a 48.5. That left SMU 1.9 seconds out of the needed 5th place.
      "Then they started winning the meet. Russell Carter, running No. 2 in the final, carried the team into 7th with a 45.1 leg but the Ponies were still 1.4 out of 5th. Eric Josjo's 45.4 moved them to 6th and now they were in striking distance, but still 0.7 back of strong Texas.
      "Now it was up to frosh Rod Jones, who had never before anchored for SMU. He handled the responsibility beautifully with 44.3, the best split in the race.
      "SMU finished 4th and won the meet. . . .
      "'I thought it was gone,'"SMU coach Ted McLaughlin admitted. Indeed, it looked that way to everybody--except Carter, Josjo and Jones."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: '83 NCAAs

        http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-track/ ... 11aaa.html

        Page 107 of the new media guide says Vols finished runner-up at NCAAs in 1983 with 102 pts with Pittman finishing 5th, which I presume means 4 pts. Page 157 says Pittman holds the UT frosh record in the steeple at 8:27.62, set in 1981. He ran the #2 steeple ever for the Vols at 8:23.66, in 1983. Doug Brown has school record of 8:23.2h (1974).

        This says that SMU was the champ in '83, which rings a bell now. For some reason I always say Wash. State or UTEP. Didn't realize until looking at the list that the Cougars have never won NCAA outdoors.

        http://www.ncaa.com/history/trackfield-outdoor-men/d1

        It appears that SMU does not sponsor men's track and field anymore, so I can't find any details of the '83 NCAAs at their website:

        http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/w-tr ... -body.html

        I don't know where to find more detailed results from each NCAA meet. Someone could help me there and maybe I could put the pieces together.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: '83 NCAAs

          Thanks, dj.

          BTW, are there complete NCAA results online anywhere? Team, individual results for every year?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: '83 NCAAs

            BTW, what if Pittman had been able to finish 2nd? Under the 15-13... system that would have given the Vols five additional points, right? Under the other system, 4 additional points. Even a third place finish would have been 3 more points under the 15-13 system, good enough for the team win. Pittman was a pretty good steepler as his PR indicates.

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            • #7
              Re: '83 NCAAs

              I found the 12-place scoring system from 1982-83, and it's so screwy that it's no wonder I couldn't remember it correctly: 16-13-12-11-10-9-7-5-4-3-2-1.

              For Tennessee to tie SMU, Pittman would have had to go from 5th to 3rd. That would have meant beating Tuwei, and that wasn't going to happen. As I said above, Tuwei pretty much gave up the chase when it was clear no one was catching Diemer and he was losing 2nd to a teammate. Tuwei was in good position when Pittman went down, so I think with Pittman running a clean race the rest of the way, he still improves by only one place, beating Gerber and leaving the Vols one point short.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: '83 NCAAs

                Thanks, dj. I never saw the race, but I remember (or think I do) the scenario being described differently in Knoxville.

                BTW, I'm not claiming "what if" for '83. We would not have won the NCAAs in '01 if TCU hadn't false started in the 4x1. This is all part of the game. SMU won fair and square. Just like we did in '01.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: '83 NCAAs

                  Just throwing this out there. Not many people remember track and field like they do other sports. But if anybody remembers the finish of this race differently than our dj does, please post here about it.

                  And tandfman, what have you come up with? Nuttin' so far...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: '83 NCAAs

                    If you really needed an answer, I was going to do what dj did--look at the report in Track & Field News. Although I was there, I have no recollection at all of the race. (It was a long time ago, and I've been to many, many track meets before and since.)

                    Sorry I can't be of further help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: '83 NCAAs

                      Why would you "presume" that I have a T&FN from that year? But since you do, and since you've offered to help, could you give the times of the top five finishers in this race, if they are in the magazine?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: '83 NCAAs

                        Well, I finally got a response on this over on one of our boards from "PaulVol," who is a former Vol track athlete and very knowledgeable about the sport. Paul sees a scenario in which we could have finished as national champs if Pittman hadn't fallen.

                        http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=7&f=1372&t=7222933

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: '83 NCAAs

                          Originally posted by BillVol
                          Why would you "presume" that I have a T&FN from that year? But since you do, and since you've offered to help, could you give the times of the top five finishers in this race, if they are in the magazine?
                          I don't know why I said that--I should have presumed that if you had the magazine, you would have looked there first.

                          In any event, here are the top 5 (from Track Newsletter): 1, Diemer. 8:26.95; 2, Korir, 8:28.95; 3, Tuwei, 8:29.37; 4, Gerber, 8:32.58; 5, Pittman, 8:33.05 (fell at last water jump while 2nd).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: '83 NCAAs

                            Here's the T&FN story:

                            "After Brendan Quinn led the pack through four laps in 4:29.3, the Washington State Kenyans moved to the front and assumed control. Hardly a surprise, as they were expected to go 1-2, in whichever order Richard Tuwei and Julius Korir decided.

                            "Sticking close, however, were Americans Brian Diemer and Ricky [sic, we were bouncing back and forth on the proper spelling of his first name] Pittman, looking for all the world like solid 3rd- and 4th- placers until the next-to-last homestretch.

                            "Diemer moved to the front, trying to stretch things out and create more running room. It appeared to be a foolhardy effort, especially when the Washington Staters took the lead back at the gun. But in the backstretch both Diemer and Pittman went by, and no longer did Diemer's earlier move appear to be a shot in the dark.

                            "Diemer, the Michigan senior, and Pittman, a Tennessee junior, led to the final water jump with Diemer clearing cleanly. Pittman belly-flopped off the 1-meter platform and was out of it.

                            "With Diemer sprinting for the last barrier, only Korir was still in contention, Tuwei's kick making no dent on the leaders. Approaching the last hurdle Diemer stretched and, attacking it like a 110 hurdler, cleared with no loss of momentum. Korir stuttered and landed flatfooted, the net loss being close to 10m.

                            "Diemer's PR 8:26.95 was a stunning victory, partly for the display of extraordinary hurdling, but mostly for the upset of Korir (8:28.95), picked by some as the favorite for the World Championships.

                            "Diemer, who came into the meet with a PR of just 8:36.99, was somewhat bewildered himself, saying, 'I don't even reallyt remember that last hurdle. I just told myself not to let anyone get away from me.' /Dave Johnson/"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: '83 NCAAs

                              Originally posted by BillVol
                              BTW, are there complete NCAA results online anywhere? Team, individual results for every year?
                              This site is very good for that kind of info.

                              http://www.usctrackandfield.com/ncaaresults.html

                              .

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