Titles-v-Records cliche.

[FrankS]

Time and time again, athletes/writers will churn out the old cliche about titles being of lasting value whereas records are of fleeting value. I'm not sure about this at all. Breaking a world record is all about setting new exciting standards - going boldly were no athlete has gone before - whereas winning titles can be such an arbitary thing. There have been classic cases of athletes who could break records but didn't seem to have what it took to win big titles. Dave Bedford ( recording breaking sensation from the early 70s ) springs to mind. Although, to be fare to Bedford ( who I greatly admire), he did win the World Cross Country Championship.

[tandfman]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

Nobody springs to mind quicker in that category than Ron Clarke.

[mike renfro]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

I think the barrier breakers are remembered. Bannister is the classic example (altho he did win the CG and EC later). I suspect El G will be remembered regardless how he fares in Athens, but Ngeny (and I may well have misspelled his name!) will be noted only when looking at lists of OG winners. Again, El G has the odd WC win, or 4.

[Per Andersen]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

Yes, Mike Renfro you are correct re barrier breakers. Is Charlie Dumas remembered for winning in Melbourne or for being first over 7ft?

I would rather have John Landy's career than Delaney's.

[bf]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

The alltime "no WR but everything else" champ must be Carl Lewis /LJ. And 200.

[tandfman]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

>I would rather have John Landy's career than Delaney's.<

I wonder if Landy feels the same way.

[Per Andersen]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

>I wonder if Landy feels the same way.

You don't think so? Well how about Ruyn's over Vasala's then. Now, do we agree?

[tandfman]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

Probably. I don't think Vasala's career was as good as Delany's.

[FrankS]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

Tens of thousands of more words have been written about Landy than Delaney. I hope John gets a big kick out of of all the interviews and attention he has received over the years since the events of 1954. No, winning an Olympic title is great, but, for it not to be considered a "fluke", there must be other great performances to back it up. Apart from his Olympic win Delaney was invovled to other great races. Second to Ibbotson in his mile record, third in the 1958 European 1500ms, and of course third behind Herb Elliott in his mile record run. But maybe Delany's greatest legacy is the way he inspired a host of young Irish middle-distance runners. As Bob Phillips points out in his great book "3.59.4 -The Quest for the 4 Minute Mile ", Ireland have produced more talented milers - per head of the population - during the post-Bannister period than probably any other country.

[rhymans]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

while the converse of Carl Lewis is probably Fernando Mamede (10k WR but a jelly in championships)

[Pego]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

<Ireland have produced more talented milers - per head of the population - during the post-Bannister period than probably any other country.>

More than Hungary?

[FrankS]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

By 1995, there were over 30 Irish 4 minute milers!

[highjumpsteve]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

I'm not an expert on Hungarian distance runners, but their golden days were up though the mid to late 50's, then Igloi came to the US. Tabori came with him. But Iharos and Roszavolgyi, etc. were pretty much done.

[Pego]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

I responded to FrankS' statement "post-Bannister era runners" which would indeed be mid-to-late fifties. Yes, it would be mostly the Iglói's stable.

[hj197steve]

Re: Titles-v-Records cliche.

actually Roszagolgyi ran some great indoor miles at MSG in 1959 or 1960, chasing Delany.