Ovett vs Coe movie

[eldanielfire]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Coe's father may have been employed by a factory, but as an engineer, I think "factory worker" probably a bit of a stretch as it relates to the working class.

Back then it was still very much working class. He was still making steel and the family didn't have money to their name.

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Utter nonsense. Coe was firmly middle class. His Dad was highly educated (working class boy with scholarship to Westminster) and he had managerial jobs throughout Seb's life. His Mum was from Kensington and went to bloody RADA.

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Page 23 of his autobiography includes the info that when they moved to Sheffield his dad was 'running a cutlery factory' and they owned a detached three storey house in 'a well heeled area'.

[gh]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

phew! glad to hear they didn't make a Lord out of some guttersnipe!

[gh]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

….His Mum was from Kensington and went to bloody RADA.

This is a wondrous coincidence. Being an ignorant colonial I had to google RADA (to discover, I assume Royal Academy of Dramatic Art). But the first thing that comes up on the search page is Rada Cutlery!

[user4]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

The thought of a 3 hour big screen epic saga on the colossal eternal story of two self absorbed athletes with pampered hypersized egos and all the attendant media drama of teen idols has us itching with anticipation ! Let the 20million dollar fight for the movie rights begin in hollywood !

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

phew! glad to hear they didn't make a Lord out of some guttersnipe!

Ever heard of Lord sugar. :lol:

[deanouk]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Utter nonsense. Coe was firmly middle class. His Dad was highly educated (working class boy with scholarship to Westminster) and he had managerial jobs throughout Seb's life. His Mum was from Kensington and went to bloody RADA.

What is this obsession with class! What actually represented a 'working' or 'middle' class life/background?
Coe's dad was born and raised in Fulham in a 2 up 2 down terraced house. He was clever, and qualified as an engineer. He 'worked' hard to get to that position. His background was hardly privileged.
Coe junior would have had a comfortable childhood, but it was not privileged. He failed his 11 plus exams and went to a secondary modern comprehensive, not the sort of education one would expect for the middle classes. His parents did not send him to private school. Many uninformed people believe he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, was privately educated and everything was given to him on a plate! This is what many associate with "middle class". Coe had none of these. He got to University and made himself a great runner through hard work. Apart from the year leading up to the 80 Olympics, he was also never a full time athlete; working or studying throughout his career.
In contrast Ovett was educated at a Grammar school, was an art student and then a full time athlete (with no job) from early on in his career.
There is no doubt that Ovett came from a more traditionally perceived "working class" back-ground, but he hardly had to struggle growing up and reaching the top. If anything it sounded easier than Coe's.

Both had pretty ordinary upbringings as they would have been seen at the time. Both were clearly very talented and both would have had to work hard to get to the levels they reached.
There are far more similarities in their lives than differences, yet most want to dwell on the latter.
The idea that Coe (who has become a Lord through bloody hard work, not family background) was a privately educated toff and Ovett an ordinary working class lad made good is a myth and far removed from reality. If the film goes down this line, as so many seem to want, then it will be an utter failure.

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Utter nonsense. Coe was firmly middle class. His Dad was highly educated (working class boy with scholarship to Westminster) and he had managerial jobs throughout Seb's life. His Mum was from Kensington and went to bloody RADA.

What is this obsession with class! What actually represented a 'working' or 'middle' class life/background?
/quote]

Eldanielfire said Coe was working class and since that was factually incorrect the pedant in me decided to contradict him. I have no obsession with class. "What represented 'working' or 'middle' class" is actually not some kind of mystery as you seem to suggest but something clearly defined by hard-working Sociologists in many learned papers over the years. Regrettably, I had to read some of them and therefore am qualified to confirm that Coe was middle class. There were many reasons why I loved Ovett and did not particularly like Coe. Class was not one of them.

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

I don't see Cram ever possessing enough 400 speed to concern the likes of Cruz, Coe, Kipketer and Rudisha at their best. He's said himself that he was at his absolute limit in Zurich 85 (1:42.88)

Cram was wrong about his limit then. The run in Edinburgh in horrible conditions, with no one to push him was worth a lot more than 1:42.8. I was there and it was the best 800 I saw live until Rudisha in 2012.

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

The reason why the recent BBC documentary about Moscow appears to praise Coe more than Ovett, is because Ovett steadfastly refuses to help, advise or answer any questions about the event.

And this goes way back. The only significant figure missing from the great 1994 "Bannister dinner" in London was Ovett. I admire him tremendously, but honestly don't understand this "screw you" attitude toward the larger sport.

I think you misinterpret his reluctance to dwell on the past for a 'screw you' attitude to the sport. He clearly still loves the sport but doesn't indulge in nostalgia.

His ex-wife tells a great story about his daughter coming home from school in 2000, aged around 6, all excited because they'd been studying the Olympics and she'd learned that a man with the same name as Daddy had been Olympic champion. I know through a mutual acquaintance that he had no memorabilia form his career in his house except for a packet of photos mark Shearman gave him.

[John G]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

I've talked to Ovett twice. Well, the first time wasn't much of a talk. He showed up at the '79 NCAA in Champaign (courtesy Nike, probably) and a mutual friend in England had said I should tell him hi. I introduced myself and said that so-and-so said I should say hi, and he in so many words told me to piss off.

But then we then ended up at the same dinner table at a World Cup function in Madrid in '01 and I've rarely enjoyed anybody's company so much. Much laughing and joking and telling of tales out of class.

I figured all those years in Oz had worked wonders in the geniality department.

I wonder if you were as charming in person then as you are now on-line. :lol:

Time in Oz had nothing to do with it. He had an intense dislike of most journo's but club athletes and fans all spoke highly of him.

[deanouk]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Cram was wrong about his limit then. The run in Edinburgh in horrible conditions, with no one to push him was worth a lot more than 1:42.8. I was there and it was the best 800 I saw live until Rudisha in 2012.

It was certainly an awesome performance, but it was made to look so much more impressive by the weak opposition. It was basically a one off circuit run, coming 3 days after the heat in which he ran 1:51. A very weak Championship. It certainly wasn't a patch on Cruz's 1:43.0 after 4 races in 4 days.

The Commonwealth 800 for Cram was run exactly as he liked to run them; even splits, someone in front up to 600m giving him drafting and all out for the last 200m.
His splits were 51.7/51.5. (25.2, 26.5, 26.4, 25.0).
His 400 pb was only 48.1 from 85, so he wouldn't have flourished off a 50 sec first lap. 51.0 was probably perfect, as he was able to maintain that speed longer than most.

The conditions in Edinburgh may not have been warm and balmy but they were hardly 'horrible'.
He has admitted that he was "all out" over the last 200m. He said at the time that he could hear the crowd going wild with 150m to go, and believed at the time that this was because McKean must be closing on him, so he went as hard as he could.
For someone with limited 23/48 speed, he wasn't going to run much faster than he did in Zurich 85.

[rsb2]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

Cram was very impressive indeed in Edinburgh/'86. In the 800, he pulled away from McKean, Elliott and the rest as if they were standing still. As stated, the conditions were not "horrible" for the 800 m. final. There was a breeze on the backstretch, but nothing like the headwind in the 1500 m. a few days later. Having said that, he certainly looked invincible on the day, and it seemed that he was capable of running much faster if necessary.

[no one]

Re: Ovett vs Coe movie

one of my favorite Oly 800m was in '88 - pretty good race all around. Coe gets second. And Kiprotich comes from behind to win. Oh wait, Shorter and friend, Charlie Jones, get it wrong and it is Paul Ereng. And Ereng did come from farrrr back. "We have blown this call" "Oh my gosh". I talked to Ereng about this @ NCAA Regional XC champs and he just laughed. He also laughed about me giving his #1 guy (who had been sick for 2 weeks with strep - ouch) tips on the steeplechase. Both were preceded with me not knowing who either one of em were. ... Kiprotich ... Rotich ... get em all mixed up ... Open mouth

ps - bugged by the Jo - a - keem Cruz. thats not the pronunciation is it?