Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

[ridge004]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

Harbig (mentioned in the list above) was of course an epic 800m runner, and also set the 400 WR. Both on an oversize track, as I recall.

[ridge004]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

I'll add one of my favorite runners ever, Dr Arthur Wint of Jamaica, since he won Olympic medals in both.

To a lesser extent, Tom Courtney, who I believe won the NCAA 440 but of course was primarily an 800 runner, winning Olympic gold in that event.

Mal Whitfield also fits the 800/400 mold.

I quite agree, but the OP had already mentioned him.

[lonewolf]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

Yep, just plug in the next greater distance.

[4:24-miler]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

Why???..because the 400 hurts enough.. if you can make a living once around the track, why compound the pain?...and it does...

Why do 800 runners run the 1500? Why do 1500 runners run the 5,000? Why do 5000 runners run the 10,000? Why do 10,000 runners run the marathon? :wink:

[lonewolf]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

Why???..because the 400 hurts enough.. if you can make a living once around the track, why compound the pain?...and it does...

[4:24-miler]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

Great info dj. How about the women's side? Off hand today Maggie Vessey and Laura Roesler come to mind but their 400m PR's are inferior to their 800m PR's.

I always wondered what Wilson Kipketer only really ran the 800 meters? Though Rudisha runs the 400m occasionally he never runs it when he is in peak form. I wonder what he could have run for 400m right after the 2012 Olympics?

[dj]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

I'll add one of my favorite runners ever, Dr Arthur Wint of Jamaica, since he won Olympic medals in both.

To a lesser extent, Tom Courtney, who I believe won the NCAA 440 but of course was primarily an 800 runner, winning Olympic gold in that event.

Mal Whitfield also fits the 800/400 mold.

[dj]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

I don't think they're historically rare, but I do think they are increasingly rare.

I'd blame it on specialization, which is probably the natural reaction to an increased depth in the talent pool at many distances.

Here's a list of progressive WRs, taking into account conversions, indoor marks and anomalies such as John Woodruffs short track 1:47.8. I've begun with the first amateur record that was superior to the professional record. I've also given their secondary events if those were strong enough ever to have earned a top-10 T&FN world ranking. No marks have been converted (y=880y, i=indoors, s=short course by about 0.3 seconds.)

Through the time of Mel Sheppard, the great 800m runners often could be counted among the world's best at both 400 and 1500 as well. I have listed their better secondary event first, as well as the other event if they would have achieved a top-10 ranking in that event also.)

Once we get past Sheppard, the pendulum favors the 400/800 runner, while only in the quarter century from Roger Moens through Seb Coe did it favor the 1500/800 runner. Since then the record has held by Wilson Kipketer and David Rudisha, neither ever ranking in a second event.

1:55 3/5y, 1881, Lon Myers (400, 1500)
1:55 3/5y, 1882, Myers (400, 1500)
1:55 2/5y, 1884, Myers (400, 1500)
1:55 2/5y, 1885, Myers (400, 1500)
1:54 3/5y, 1888, Frank Cross (1500, 400)
1:54 1/2y, 1891, Walter Dohm (400)
1:53 2/5y, 1895, Charlie Kilpatrick (1500, 400))
1:52 4/5, 1908, Mel Sheppard (1500, 400)
1:52 1/5y, 1909, Emilio Lunghi (400)
1:51.9, 1912, Ted Meredith (400)
1:52 1/5y, 1916, Meredith (400)
1:51.6y, 1926, Otto Peltzer (1500)
1:51.4yi, 1928, Lloyd Hahn (1500)
1:50.6, 1928, Sera Martin (1500)
1:50.0, 1932, Ben Eastman (400)
1:49.70, 1932, Tommy Hampson
1:49.1, 1934, Eastman (400)
1:49.6y, 1937, Elroy Robinson
1:47.8s, 1937, John Woodruff (400)
1:46.6, 1939, Rudi Harbig (400)
1:45.7, 1955, Roger Moens (1500)
1:44.3, 1962, Peter Snell (1500)
1:44.9y, 1966, Jim Ryun (1500)
1:44.3, 1972, Dave Wottle (1500)
1:44.6y, 1973, Rick Wohlhuter (1500)
1:43.7, 1973, Marcello Fiasconaro (400)
1:44.1y, 1974, Wohlhuter (1500)
1:43.50, 1976, Alberto Juantorena (400)
1:43.44, 1977, Juantorena (400)
1:42.33, 1979, Sebastian Coe (1500)
1:41.73, 1981, Coe (1500)
1:41.73, 1997, Wilson Kipketer
1:41.24, 1997, Kipketer
1:41.11, 1997, Kipketer
1:41.09, 2010, David Rudisha
1:41.01, 2010, Rudisha
1:40.91, 2012, Rudisha

[ridge004]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

I'll add one of my favorite runners ever, Dr Arthur Wint of Jamaica, since he won Olympic medals in both.

To a lesser extent, Tom Courtney, who I believe won the NCAA 440 but of course was primarily an 800 runner, winning Olympic gold in that event.

[aaronk]

Re: Why are 400m/800m runners rare?

My guess is that 400 guys and gals see themselves as primarily long sprinters, while 800 folks see themselves as short milers!!

And rarely the twain shall meet!!

[4:24-miler]

I was wondering why 400m/800m runners are historically rare? Alberto Juantorena, Jarmila Kratochvílová, and Mal Whitfield come to mind.