All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

[jsquire]

The first running even of the final day is the 4x100 meter relay. The teams are:

Africa: Frankie Fredericks, Olapide Adeniken, Chidi Imoh, Jean-Louise Ravelomanantsoa
Americas: Silvio Leonard, Don Quarrie, Lloyd LaBeach, Donovan Bailey
Asia: Takayoshi Yoshioka, Chen Chuachian, Hideo Ijima, Mitsuo Taniguchi
Europe: Armin Hary, Eugen Ray, Herbert Houben, Helmuth Kornig
Pacific: Hector Hogan, John Treloar, Fortunato Catalon, Patrick Johnson
UK: Harold Abrahams, Allan Wells, Emmanuel McDonald Bailey, Linford Christie
USA: Bobby Morrow, Carl Lewis, Jesse Owens, Bob Hayes
USSR: Vladimir Sukharyev, Viktor Bryzgin, Aleksandr Kornelyuk, Valeriy Borzov

The results:
1) USA
2) Americas
3) UK
4) Europe
5) Africa
6) USSR
7) Pacific
8) Asia

Team scores through 14 events:
94 USA
89 Europe
81 USSR
65 Americas
51 Africa
49 UK
44 Pacific
32 Asia

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

Now the classic, the 1500 meters. Lining up on the backstretch are:

Africa: Noureddine Morceli
Americas: Kevin Sullivan
Asia: Mohamed Suleiman
Europe: Gunder Hagg
Pacific: Herb Elliot
UK: Walter George
USA: Jim Ryun
USSR: Nikolay Kirov

It’s a photo-finish! (I mean, it’s really hard to pick.)

1) Morceli
2) Elliot
3) Hagg
4) George
5) Ryun
6) Suleiman
7) Sullivan
8) Kirov

Team scores through 15 events:
98 USA
95 Europe
82 USSR
67 Americas
59 Africa
54 UK
51 Pacific
35 Asia

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

Now we go to the 400 meters. Our competitors:

Africa: Gabriel Tiacoh
Americas: Alberto Juantorena
Asia: Milka Singh
Europe: Rudolph Harbig
Pacific: Darren Clarke
UK: Dave Jenkins
USA: Michael Johnson
USSR: Viktor Markin

And the results:
1) Johnson
2) Juantorena
3) Harbig
4) Tiacoh
5) Jenkins
6) Markin
7) Clark
8) Singh

Team scores through 16 events:
106 USA
101 Europe
85 USSR
74 Americas
64 Africa
59 UK
53 Pacific
36 Asia

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

As the hurdles are put on the track, the athletes setting up their blocks are:
Africa: Tom Lavery
Americas: Earl Thomson
Asia: Lin Tsui
Europe: Guy Drut
Pacific: Peter Gardner
UK: Colin Jackson
USA: Renaldo Nehemiah
USSR: Anatoliy Mikhailov

The results:
1) Nehemiah
2) Jackson
3) Thomson
4) Drut
5) Lavery
6) Mikhailov
7) Gardner
8) Tsui

Team scores through 17 events:
114 USA
106 Europe
88 USSR
80 Americas
68 Africa
66 UK
55 Pacific
37 Asia

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

Now the 100 meters. The world’s fastest men are:

Africa: Frank Fredericks
Americas: Donovan Bailey
Asia: Takayoshi Yoshioka
Europe: Herbert Houben
Pacific: Hector Hogan
UK: Linford Christie
USA: Bob Hayes (Lewis didn’t want to triple today)
USSR: Valeriy Borzov

The results:
1) Hayes
2) Christie
3) Bailey
4) Borzov
5) Fredericks
6) Houben
7) Yoshioka
8) Hogan

Team scores through 18 events:
122 USA
109 Europe
93 USSR
86 Americas
73 UK
72 Africa
56 Pacific
39 Asia

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

The 5000 meters is the meet’s penultimate race. It’s second to last, too.

Africa: Said Aouita
Americas: Bruce Kidd (Barrios is tired from yesterday’s 10,000)
Asia: Keisuke Sawake
Europe: Paavo Nurmi
Pacific: Murray Halberg
UK: Gordon Pirie
USA: Bob Schul
USSR: Vladimir Kuts (I should have run Bolotnikov yesterday so Kuts didn’t have to double)

The results:
1) Aouita
2) Nurmi
3) Halberg
4) Kuts
5) Pirie
6) Schul
7) Kidd
8) Sawake

Team scores through 19 events:
125 USA
116 Europe
98 USSR
88 Americas
80 Africa
77 UK
62 Pacific
40 Asia

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

As we enter the final event, the 4x400 meter relay, all team standings are set with one exception—the UK can catch Africa. Our teams:

Africa: Gabriel Tiacoh, Innocent Egbunike, Charles Asati, Kasheef Hassan
Americas: Herb McKenley, George Rhoden, Bert Cameron, Alberto Juantorena
Asia: Mohamad Al Malky, Sugath Tillakaratne, Sosumo Takano, Milka Singh
Europe: Mario Lanzi, Thomas Schonlebe, Harald Schmid, Rudolph Harbig
Pacific: Kevan Gosper, Edwin Carr, Rick Mitchell, Darren Clark
UK: Eric Liddell, Allen Woodring, Adrian Metcalfe, Dave Jenkins
USA: Lon Myers, Lee Evans, Butch Reynolds, Michael Johnson
USSR: Ardalion Ignatyev, Vadim Arkhipchuk, Nikolay Chernyetskiy, Viktor Markin

The results:
1) USA
2) Americas
3) UK
4) Europe
5) Africa
6) USSR
7) Asia
8) Pacific

Final team scores:
133 USA
121 Europe
101 USSR
95 Americas
84 Africa
83 UK
63 Pacific
42 Asia

[CoachKoby]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

What happened to your picks for the 10k?

[tandfman]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

>What happened to your picks for the 10k?<

There is no 10,000m in the IAAF World Cup.

[Enrico Caruso]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

>Europe: Mario Lanzi, Thomas Schonlebe, Harald Schmid, Rudolph Harbig<

Aw, c'mon. There was only one Mario Lanza.

[jhc68]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

My goodness... Walter George as the all-time UK pick? And George and Gunder Hagg beating Jim Ryun? Interesting.

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

>>What happened to your picks for the
>10k?<

There is no 10,000m in the IAAF World
>Cup.

There used to be, back in the 70s. See http://trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/discus ... thread=489

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

>My goodness... Walter George as the all-time UK
>pick? And George and Gunder Hagg beating Jim
>Ryun? Interesting.

Well, I picked George because I didn't want Coe to double-up. It may be a bit of a stretch, but Coe and George are certainly the best two milers the Brits have ever had.

As far as Hagg beating Ryun . . . Hagg in '41 and '42 was every bit as dominating as Ryun in '66 and '67. He was also probably the world's #1 miler in '44 and '45. Hagg's WRs are at least the equal of Ryun's in terms of number, length of time they stood, and improvement on the existing record. I said it was really hard to separate these milers, so I expect a lot of argument, but I didn't just rank them willy-nilly without looking at the facts.

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

While I do believe Ryun was as talented as today's best, and if trained as today's runners do, he would run as fast or faster than them, he didn't. So, I would put Morceli ahead of him with no problem at all. No contest. However, despite the dominance of Hagg at his time, and of George, it's almost ridiculous to consider them finishing as close as 50 meters behind Ryun, no matter how they trained. It looks like you are basing your picks on rankings over the years, and competitive records, etc. However, the "intangibles" do come into play. Yes, you said you'd catch some heat. How can Elliot be ahead of Ryun. He has his gold from Rome, but a very thin competitive record. His undefeated string is bandied about, but he ran very few races. He didn't reach his potential is the argument some put forth, but neither did Ryun, and one can point to Ryun's fast finishes in much faster races, as one can do in far greater fashion for Morceli. I guess I'm saying that while it's amusing, it's impossible to compare athletes from different eras, especially when you dig up Walter George from his grave to square off against Morceli, Sullivan, Ryun etc. How about someone trying to pick some races with all time greats racing each other, and trying to factor in the intangibles, like (perceived) potential, etc.? That might be good for even more arguments and laughs. However, it's hard to keep from chuckling, picturing Walter George lined up against some of these guys. I understand how you are doing this, but it shows how goofy things turn out. The gun would go off, and the poor man would wonder why the other runners are sprinting.

Sticking with the guys you have, I see a battle with Morceli and Ryun, with Elliot fighting Sullivan for third.

[jsquire]

Re: All-time World Cup day 2: Running Events

These are not idealized races or comparisons of talent (which is itself defies any real definition) but to compare accomplishments viewed in the context of their time. In the context of his time, Ryun had two tremendous seasons with several world records, and then he fell off the top. I'm not here to explain why, becuase it really doesn't matter -- he simply did.

George's professional world record was unbeaten for almost 30 years; he was a runner "ahead of his time". Elliot also had two tremendous seasons with several world records, but one of them happened to be set while winning an Olympic gold medal (which Ryun never did). Hagg had similar accomplishments, but never got the chance to succeed (or fail) at an Olympics.

In 1998, T&FN picked Elliot as the greatest miler of the magazine's first 50 years. I'm willing to accept that they might know a thing or two about track.