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  • #16
    Hal Connolly later admitted he was on them in the 60s. I think Oerter may have even admitted that.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post
      Hal Connolly later admitted he was on them in the 60s. I think Oerter may have even admitted that.
      I was at a talk in Boulder about 20 years ago Oerter gave and he talked about the drug scene then... I can't remember his exact words but I believe he mentioned experimenting a bit but decided he didn't want to use them... I do remember clearly it was the reason he said he quit after 1968 because they were so prevalent.
      Last edited by Conor Dary; 08-29-2018, 09:18 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by user4 View Post
        "in that era" yes, and only in that era, .. the sport was clean in the previous and subsequent eras.
        I presume "clean" is a relative term. The sport will probably never be 100% clean. Not because it necessarily it has a problem but because athletes are people and some of them are dishonest and devious or weak or naive and easily-led.

        There is little doubt for me that the '80s were the 'dirtiest' decade in the sport though.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
          I presume "clean" is a relative term. The sport will probably never be 100% clean. Not because it necessarily it has a problem but because athletes are people and some of them are dishonest and devious or weak or naive and easily-led.

          There is little doubt for me that the '80s were the 'dirtiest' decade in the sport though.
          Part of it was there was very little testing then... On another thread we discussed this... An English friend of mine who ran on 2 Olympic teams, Helsinki and a few WCCCs in the 80s said she was tested only once and that was some obscure cc meet. No out of competition testing... Not that was she worried about being tested I might add.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
            Part of it was there was very little testing then... On another thread we discussed this... An English friend of mine who ran on 2 Olympic teams, Helsinki and a few WCCCs in the 80s said she was tested only once and that was some obscure cc meet. No out of competition testing... Not that was she worried about being tested I might add.
            Yes, much less testing and also less sophisticated testing too. Tests that could only detect a substance if it had been taken within a short period of time before the test and no tests for certain PEDs.

            I must admit when Ben Johnson's positive test in Seoul was first an unconfirmed story on the BBC, one of my first thoughts was that how could he be so careless as to get caught! As it turned out they had just improved the accuracy of the test so that it picked up steroid use over twice as long a period as before.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
              Yes, much less testing and also less sophisticated testing too. Tests that could only detect a substance if it had been taken within a short period of time before the test and no tests for certain PEDs.

              I must admit when Ben Johnson's positive test in Seoul was first an unconfirmed story on the BBC, one of my first thoughts was that how could he be so careless as to get caught! As it turned out they had just improved the accuracy of the test so that it picked up steroid use over twice as long a period as before.
              Exactly....my thoughts too. If I remember he ran badly in a race and decided he needed a fill up...

              Johnson testing positive was probably the worse of all worlds....besides the bad press when he was supposedly clean and ran like a donkey he only confirmed that steroids really work. Up until then I don't think it was quite so obvious to a lot of folks.

              Like those Viagra ads....with testimonials from users...
              Last edited by Conor Dary; 08-29-2018, 11:12 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
                Yes, much less testing and also less sophisticated testing too. Tests that could only detect a substance if it had been taken within a short period of time before the test and no tests for certain PEDs.

                I must admit when Ben Johnson's positive test in Seoul was first an unconfirmed story on the BBC, one of my first thoughts was that how could he be so careless as to get caught! As it turned out they had just improved the accuracy of the test so that it picked up steroid use over twice as long a period as before.
                He didn't need to get dirty in a period twice as long before the Seoul 1988 final. He, his manager Charlie Francis, and his quack Jamie Astaphan, all panicked after Carl and Calvin beat him in Zürich; and being so determined to beat Carl he was willing to walk through the Gates of Hell (and into a horse's ass, given the kind of drug he took) to do it, all within a matter of 5½ weeks...

                ...The same could be said of Marion, who saw her goal of 5 gold medals slipping away on a bad back, and was determined not to let anything stand in her way of achieving that goal; and she went to BALCO to stay the course.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by beebee View Post
                  Wouldn't a clean East German be actual news?
                  Indeed. But I agree with BamBam; this is no surprise. Who else is in those Stasi books?

                  And speaking of which, did Wolfgang Schmidt ever get to throw for a unified Germany in any major competition, once the Wall came down? I'm certain he threw for West Germany, but he never got to throw in Seoul.
                  Last edited by CookyMonzta; 08-30-2018, 02:59 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post
                    And speaking of which, did Wolfgang Schmidt ever get to throw for a unified Germany in any major competition, once the Wall came down?
                    He placed fourth for reunified Germany in the 1991 World Championships.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                      Exactly....my thoughts too. If I remember he ran badly in
                      Johnson testing positive was probably the worse of all worlds....besides the bad press when he was supposedly clean and ran like a donkey he only confirmed that steroids really work. Up until then I don't think it was quite so obvious to a lot of folks.

                      Like those Viagra ads....with testimonials from users...
                      While his relative mediocrity after his suspension probably showed how effective steroids can be, some people drew what I think are false conclusions from his case. His best time for his last clean season was, I think, 10.61. This led to suggestions that steroids alone made him 0.82 quicker which I am sure was not the case. If it was true someone would probably have run about 9.2 at some stage!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by gh View Post
                        The same could probably be said about the high-enders from all nations in that era.
                        True dat. And the irony is that he had no choice. The state said dope; he doped. Also true to a lesser degree in other Soviet-dominated nations.

                        The rest of the world had to make a conscious decision to dope. And we'll never know who was who, which taints the entire era, which I broadly define as the last 30 years of the 1900s, not that doping stopped in 2000 . . . or today (Russia) (which is why the idea of Millennial Records is a non-starter).

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Davidokun View Post
                          He placed fourth for reunified Germany in the 1991 World Championships.
                          And a year before that he took bronze at the Europeans, competing for West Germany.
                          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
                            I presume "clean" is a relative term. The sport will probably never be 100% clean. Not because it necessarily it has a problem but because athletes are people and some of them are dishonest and devious or weak or naive and easily-led.

                            There is little doubt for me that the '80s were the 'dirtiest' decade in the sport though.
                            The 70s are pretty tough competition. Certainly doping in Finland peaked in the 70s and started tailing off after that. Steroids were already ubiquitous in the 70s and blood doping was already around (and wasn't officially banned before the 80s I think?). Some countries joined the fun a bit late maybe but I don't think, say, the average WR-breaker was any less likely to be a doper in the 70s.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                              I was at a talk in Boulder about 20 years ago Oerter gave and he talked about the drug scene then... I can't remember his exact words but I believe he mentioned experimenting a bit but decided he didn't want to use them... I do remember clearly it was the reason he said he quit after 1968 because they were so prevalent.
                              Then he returned after 12 years and started throwing farther in his late 40s than he had in his youth.
                              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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