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  • Big Hawk 3:58 mile 1875.

    My son alerted me to this today. I found several references to it on google.

    In 1875, Big Hawk, a Pawnee scout/messenger is reliably reputed to have delivered a message from Ft Sidney, NE to the Wichita agency,running a distance of 120 miles in 20 hours, averaging 6 min/mile over raw terrain.
    To validate Big Hawks running prowess, two West Point educated Engineer officers laid out, with tape measure, a rectangular half mile course. Big Hawk was timed, with stopwatches, at 1:58/2:00= 3:58 for two laps of the track. the next day, he repeated with 1:59/1:59=3:58, possibly pre-dating Bannister's "first" sub-4 mile by 79 years.

    I believe humans have long been capable of sub-four miles and find the account credible.

    Thirty + years ago, my son regularly ran in the Pawnee Nation annual Big Hawk 5K at reservation headquartered in Pawnee, OK.

    Anybody else familiar with this feat?

  • #2
    Right....totally credible....

    And reliably reputed in 1875....I'm completely convinced....

    Actually Peter Radford had some insane story about some guy in England in 1775 running a sub 4 mile....so your hero is a bit late.
    Last edited by Conor Dary; 11-29-2018, 11:04 PM.

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    • #3
      You are right, lonewolf, humans have long been capable of sub-four minute miles. I am not familiar with this report, but I wouldn't say that it was impossible. Running today is completely different from running in 1875. Today: all-weather tracks, very light shoes made just for running, competition in most schools for cross country & track and field, major meets around the world, especially the Olympic Games, many good coaches that know what they are doing, trainers and doctors to help with injuries, and now you can run for a living. Most of this was not available in 1875. I always wonder what Jim Thorpe could have done in the decathlon had he had the advantages of living in the 21st century.

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      • #4
        Do you or your son have contact info for Big Hawk?
        How are his grades?
        Does he have eligibility left? My understanding is he would be considered overage for DI but not for DII or DIII.

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        • #5
          an ancient bit of apocrypha, repeated many times through the years

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Peter Michaelson View Post
            Do you or your son have contact info for Big Hawk?
            How are his grades?
            Does he have eligibility left? My understanding is he would be considered overage for DI but not for DII or DIII.
            My son ran for Okla State Univ. His grades were excellent but he used up his eligibility circa 1978. He retired from Ok State Engineering Dept in August.
            I would address inquiries to Pawnee Agency, Pawnee, Okla... Google might have a more definitive address.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gh View Post
              an ancient bit of apocrypha, repeated many times through the years
              Well, it was news to me.. I am reminded of a Ripley Believe it or not about a Civil War era Cavalry Lt who reputedly jumped a 27 foot wide creek when being chased by Indians.

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              • #8
                While we are on things Pawnee, I am reminded of Pawnee Bill Bredde, an OK A&M running back who ran back the opening kickoff in 1950 OAMC/OU Bedlam game 99 yards for a touchdown.
                Apparently it made OU mad. Then, as now, OU was a dominant football force.As I recall, they beat us something like 70-7.
                Small World category, thirty years later a doctor neighbor in OKC confessed that his claim to OU football notoriety was that he missed the last tackle to stop Bredde.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                  Well, it was news to me.. I am reminded of a Ripley Believe it or not about a Civil War era Cavalry Lt who reputedly jumped a 27 foot wide creek when being chased by Indians.
                  I think adrenaline is a PED!

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                  • #10
                    Thread on this topic, from several years ago:

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Master Po View Post
                      Thread on this topic, from several years ago:

                      https://trackandfieldnews.com/discus...ght=hawk+chief
                      It is official. I am senile. I did not remember that thread and I even contributed to it..I guess I was more intrigued by the 27 foot cavalry LJer.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                        Well, it was news to me.. I am reminded of a Ripley Believe it or not about a Civil War era Cavalry Lt who reputedly jumped a 27 foot wide creek when being chased by Indians.
                        I had heard that he actually fouled on that jump.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Master Po View Post
                          Thread on this topic, from several years ago:

                          https://trackandfieldnews.com/discus...ght=hawk+chief
                          Oh yes I remember that thread.... some apocryphal stories. The Man Who Outran Liberty Valence.

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                          • #14
                            This is insanity, what is next ? Is someone going to offer crazy stories about an 18 year old out in the Bayous of Louisiana pole vaulting 19 ft!

                            Stop the madness !!
                            Last edited by user4; 12-01-2018, 08:49 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DoubleRBar View Post
                              I had heard that he actually fouled on that jump.
                              Or tripped on his saber.

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