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  • #16
    NorCal certainly produced a lot of great distance runners, but I'm not sure what "dominated" means in this sense. From 1957 through 1966, athletes from the four southern sections won 46 of the 66 first- through third-place medals (and 15 of the 22 golds) at the State Meet in the 880, mile and two mile.

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    • #17
      Apologies to Groth - still a great name - likely the NCAA xc champ I referred. Nope looked up and Dale Story was 1961 NC champ for Oregon St. Ore state wins team also

      Remember a pic in TFN of Story of em - running barefoot - as was the post 64 Abebe influence. NorCal.Inc. was a corporation not to be taken lightly. An illegal monopoly. It would be interesting to some comparisons I don't know much about pre60 but a little bit about post 60s. Perhaps I was trying to remember Bruce Bess.

      One of my bro went to USC and ran many 4x880 relays with trentadue running a best in 1:46 range. SC had a pretty good corp of 880 guys 5 or 6 guys at 1:47-8-9.

      Got my curiosity piqued gonna look at some Cal HS results from earlier. Did you know Mike Stone (9:18-20s in 65 - somewhere up there)

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      • #18
        okay did some lookin up

        According to Hoffman's alltime HS mile list 17 guys ran 4:12.6 or faster in the 50's and 60s. Eleven of those were SoCal guys and 7 were NoCal. No runners listeed before 1959 - Dale Story.

        FYI on Groth: He won the NCAA Mile in 63, 1500 in 64 and got 5th in 65. He was listed on HS mile list in 64 @ 4:10.1. Dennis Carr was listed in 62 at 4:08.7. Was there a controversy or ??? about mile record back then?

        If you look at 880 - Mile and 2 mile results the edge goes to So Cal:

        1957 - Jim Cerveny (Mission Bay, S.D.) 1:52.7
        1958 - Alfred Gentry (Fremont , L.A.) 1:55.4
        1959 - Dave Dunbar (Westmoor, Daly City) 1:53.2
        1960 - Ray VanAsten (Bonita, La Verne) 1:51.9
        1961 - Mike Gibeau (Lincoln, S.F.) 1:53.1
        1962 - Doug Parker (Chico) 1:52.2
        1963 - Dennis Carr (Lowell, Whittier) 1:50.9
        1964 - Bob Hose (Madison, S.D.) 1:57.7
        1965 - Richard Joyce (Sierra, Whittier) 1:48.8
        1966 - Terry Rogers (Hilltop, Chula Vista) 1:51.5
        1967 - Lawrence Banks (Dorsey, L.A.) 1:51.2
        1968 - George Alfaro (Pittsburg) 1:52.3
        1969 - Ricco Sanchez (Canoga Park) 1:51.6
        1970 - Rick Brown (Los Altos) 1:50.6
        1971 - Percell Keeling (Morningside, Inglewood) 1:51.9
        1972 - Dale Scott (El Cerrito) 1:49.7
        1973 - Randy Lopez (Alhambra) 1:52.4
        1974 - John Musich (Burbank) 1:51.0
        1975 - Conrad Suhr (Leigh, San Jose) 1:51.0


        1957 - Tim Roelen (San Fernando) 4:20.2
        1958 - Woody Covington (Compton) 4:23.7
        1959 - Dale Story (Orange) 4:11.0
        1960 - Ben Tucker (Polytechnic, S.F.) 4:14.3
        1961 - Bruce Bess (La Habra) 4:18.8
        1962 - Dennis Carr (Lowell, Whittier) 4:08.7
        1963 - Tracy Smith (Arcadia) 4:14.4
        1964 - Mike Ryan (Wilcox, Santa Clara) 4:11.2
        1965 - Tim Danielson (Chula Vista) 4:08.4
        1966 - Tim Danielson (Chula Vista) 4:07.0
        1967 - Mike Solomon (Westminster) 4:11.4
        1968 - Clifton West (Kennedy, Sacrament0) 4:09.0
        1969 - Decker Underwood (South, Torrance) 4:12.1
        1970 - Brent Tubb (Cleveland, Reseda) 4:12.9
        1971 - Brent Tubb (Cleveland) 4:09.6
        1972 - Mark Schilling (Garden Grove) 4:05.4
        1973 - Alvin Gilmore (Lompoc) 4:11.4
        1974 - Rick Kimball (De La Salle, Concord) 4:06.6
        1975 - John Johnson (Skyline, Oakland) 4:09.5

        1965 - Ralph Gamez (Berkeley) 9:12.9
        1966 - Ralph Gamez (Berkeley) 9:01.6
        1967 - Pete Romero (Reedley) 9:00.5
        1968 - Ruben Chappins (Excelsior, Norwalk) 9:05.7
        1969 - Ruben Chappins (Excelsior)8:57.0
        1970 - Ron Johnson (West, Torrance) 8:55.6
        1971 - Dale Fleet (Claremont, S.D.) 8:53.8
        1972 - Curtis Beck (Santa Monica) 8:52.3
        1973 - Terry Williams (Lompoc) 8:54.8
        1974 - Rick Kimball (De La Salle, Concord) 8:46.5
        1975 - Eric Hulst (Laguna Beach) 8:44.9

        Of course the best way (Ithink) to compare would be to get depth (5 or 10?) charts of each place (socal v nocal)from 55 to 65.

        I always wanted to run a xc meet vs nocal - but before its time I guess

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        • #19
          Originally posted by no one


          Of course the best way (Ithink) to compare would be to get depth (5 or 10?) charts of each place (socal v nocal)from 55 to 65.

          I always wanted to run a xc meet vs nocal - but before its time I guess
          I'm sure I won't be able hold off the swarm of Socal stats showing off its dominance over Nocal in distance running, but I have to try.

          First, I'll define distance running as being the two mile run. Why, because it will help my defense of Nocal and, besides, how can a mile be a distance run when every pissant HS PE teacher could make everyone in high school run 4 laps. 8 laps it is.

          Second, my measure of dominance is which side of the State had the greater number of 2 milers who made T&FNs end of year High School list. Why, because again obviously, this stat supports my memory.

          Third, the period of claimed dominance is the period 1958-64. Why, because after 1964, while it took until 1968 for any Socal distance runner to win the California State meet 2 mile championship, Socal ultimately did start producing a greater number of listed two milers than Nocal.

          With the above dominance stats in mind, and remember, this so-called dominance is "in my mind", Nocal clearly was dominant, having more 2 milers than Socal make the T&FN list every year from 1958-64, 7 years in a row. And, recall, these were the first seven years that T&FN listed two milers! And that led directly to Mills, Schul and Dellinger in 64. And its been down hill ever since for American distance running.':roll:'

          So there – work what magic you will with your statistics, I have mine and my memories of
          Ryan
          Gamez
          Groth
          McCalla
          Ortegon
          Nicholas, and many others.

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          • #20
            prep -
            good un

            Gamez absolutely dominant
            Ryan equally as dominant
            can't disagree (how could I) with Groth (you remember his time?). He went to Alhambra - that's what threw me off - there is an Alhambra down disaway - cept I'm not disaway anymore
            McCalla - know him as a collegian but wha his hs time

            The two others - ya got me
            And many others - ya got me too

            In fact you may well have shut out SoCal 2 milers pre '65 :shock:

            No question - you guys dominated 2 mile pre '65. I saw gamez run state meet in '65 and despite his black socks he was impressive.

            Was NoCal actually running 2 mile in '57-64

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            • #21
              prep - this might interest you

              http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/TRACK/ncs_res.htm

              the wonders of google

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