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Brief Obama Critique

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  • #31
    Re: Brief Obama Critique

    Originally posted by beebee
    Originally posted by user4
    Originally posted by beebee
    Not confused at all. 19 terrorists sent by OBL's organization attacked us on 9/11/01. Attacking and invading Afghanistan was a war crime...those people did nothing to us.
    My recollection of events was that there was a period of negotiations, between the US and the Afgan "Taliban" government for apprehension and turn over of OBL and all complicit ALQ leaders on charges of organizing the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban gave it consideration and would not turn him/them over. The war was the final result of the escalation. At some point OBL issued the famous tapes of himself taking credit for the 9/11 attacks. Our war against the Taliban was a war to remove ALQ and its terrorist network from Afghanistan and our cause actually merged with existing Afghan northern alliance forces within Afghanistan.

    You might not be confused, you could just be wrong.
    So we bombed a helpless innocent nation because bad guys live there?

    Do realize that we negotiate with these bad Taliban?

    The Afghan war was never just. Obama sent seal team six into Pakistan to kill 9/11's orchestrator. Had tough guy Bush done the same thing when OBL was stuck in Tora Bora we could have saved lives and our national treasure...and our reputation.
    you are not only a constitutional scholar, you are also a crack high ranking intelligence officer as well as a military special forces planner. We salute you.

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    • #32
      Re: Brief Obama Critique

      You've got nothing sir.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Brief Obama Critique

        Originally posted by TN1965
        So Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Norway all have smaller governments than the United States? What do you mean by "small" then? A higher marginal tax rate equals a smaller government? :roll:
        I think when the government taxes a billionaires earned wealth at 15% and its working stiff citizens as 30% the reasonable person will come to the conclusion that the government is more in the service of the billionaire.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Brief Obama Critique

          Originally posted by user4
          Originally posted by TN1965
          So Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Norway all have smaller governments than the United States? What do you mean by "small" then? A higher marginal tax rate equals a smaller government? :roll:
          I think when the government taxes a billionaires earned wealth at 15% and its working stiff citizens as 30% the reasonable person will come to the conclusion that the government is more in the service of the billionaire.
          You certainly sound like a slick politician. You have mastered the art of evading a question.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Brief Obama Critique

            Originally posted by user4
            I have no ideal society because there are no ideal men. Checks and balances are generally good, liberty to provide for yourself and your family are a surer foundation for civil society than any totalitarian socialist statist model I have seen
            Does any country do things well, in your opinion?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Brief Obama Critique

              Originally posted by gh
              I have trouble pinning much blame on quagmires like Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan on any particular president of either party. To paraphrase Willie S a bit, "there are tides in the affairs of men…"
              Iraq was/is 100% a Bush/Cheney bullshit war. The escalated quagmire of Vietnam was Johnson's. Afghanistan was inevitable post-9/11.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Brief Obama Critique

                Originally posted by scottmitchell74
                And yet the World flocks to our borders, imitates us on a grand scale, calls on us first when things go wrong, happily make us of our advances, and wish their country(s) had 1/2 the freedoms we have. Oh, and when they do come over here and get a chance to tote a gun and wear a cowboy hat...you should see the look on their faces! Merica!
                So - America, love it or leave it? My country, right or wrong? Might makes right?

                We ALL love our country!! I served for 20 years in the Navy for no other reason than pay-back/forward for all the freedoms I do have, but . . . we are a long from being 'exceptional' (even with the huge head-start we have on other nations), and I think we can get a whole lot closer! I applaud lonewolf's perspective, even though it's almost exactly the polar opposite of mine!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Brief Obama Critique

                  Marlow, I was just countering the other poster's view that the rest of the World universally hates us. My experience (having traveled a lot, lived in Africa, married a Barbadian and otherwise living my life) has shown me that a lot of the World loves us, imitates us, wants to be us, and wants to be with us.
                  You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Brief Obama Critique

                    Originally posted by beebee
                    Not confused at all. 19 terrorists sent by OBL's organization attacked us on 9/11/01. Attacking and invading Afghanistan was a war crime...those people did nothing to us.

                    I have friends from all over the world and most of them view us Anericans as violent gun loving cowboys who beat up on small poor harmless countries. And they consider us to be terrorists.
                    Of course you're entitled to your opinion on the morality of the Afghanistan war, but you're not entitled to your own facts regarding the incontrovertible events that led us there. I don't see how you can say that W and Cheney tricked Congress and the U.N. into supporting this war, unless you're a Truther who believes that 9/11 was an inside job?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Brief Obama Critique

                      Originally posted by Ned Ryerson
                      Originally posted by user4
                      I have no ideal society because there are no ideal men. Checks and balances are generally good, liberty to provide for yourself and your family are a surer foundation for civil society than any totalitarian socialist statist model I have seen
                      Does any country do things well, in your opinion?
                      many countries do many things well .. America, which I consider the most wonderful country in the world, with Canada a close 2nd, has rolled back a bit on the ideals of freedom and liberty in the last 100 years and especially in the last 40 for the hope of egalitarianism... That is my reading of our history.

                      The more I hear politicians drone on about income inequality the more I see their biggest supporters become more and more fabulously wealthy. They play for keeps.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Brief Obama Critique

                        Originally posted by scottmitchell74
                        Marlow, I was just countering the other poster's view that the rest of the World universally hates us. My experience (having traveled a lot, lived in Africa, married a Barbadian and otherwise living my life) has shown me that a lot of the World loves us, imitates us, wants to be us, and wants to be with us.

                        Never said that the rest of the world universally hates us. The truth is that there's a lot about us Americans that no one wants to emulate.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Brief Obama Critique

                          Originally posted by beebee
                          Originally posted by scottmitchell74
                          Marlow, I was just countering the other poster's view that the rest of the World universally hates us. My experience (having traveled a lot, lived in Africa, married a Barbadian and otherwise living my life) has shown me that a lot of the World loves us, imitates us, wants to be us, and wants to be with us.

                          Never said that the rest of the world universally hates us. The truth is that there's a lot about us Americans that no one wants to emulate.
                          I wonder if that is because so many of us are self righteous demagogues that run around screaming obscenities at those that dont share our political view.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Brief Obama Critique

                            Originally posted by jazzcyclist
                            Originally posted by beebee
                            Not confused at all. 19 terrorists sent by OBL's organization attacked us on 9/11/01. Attacking and invading Afghanistan was a war crime...those people did nothing to us.

                            I have friends from all over the world and most of them view us Anericans as violent gun loving cowboys who beat up on small poor harmless countries. And they consider us to be terrorists.
                            Of course you're entitled to your opinion on the morality of the Afghanistan war, but you're not entitled to your own facts regarding the incontrovertible events that led us there. I don't see how you can say that W and Cheney tricked Congress and the U.N. into supporting this war, unless you're a Truther who believes that 9/11 was an inside job?
                            That's because I didn't say Bush and Cheney tricked anyone...they lied their asses off. And our pitiful media helped greatly drumbeating this unnecessary act of aggression...congress just went along fearful of being labeled anti-patriotic. This criminal invasion still was Bush and Cheney's baby.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Brief Obama Critique

                              Originally posted by user4
                              That is my reading of our history.
                              I generally disagree. i'm measuring this primarily in civil rights which have been objectively strengthened in the last 100 years.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Brief Obama Critique

                                Originally posted by Ned Ryerson
                                Originally posted by user4
                                That is my reading of our history.
                                I generally disagree. i'm measuring this primarily in civil rights which have been objectively strengthened in the last 100 years.
                                I generally agree with that. Federal and State Government unequal protection under the Law has been greatly curtailed and that is a very good thing. Wilson the great progressive aided and abetted the southern Dem racists. FDR kept it going for the "greater good" of socialism.

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