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  • Trans-Racialism

    Is this issue a measure of how contradictory our culture is? Or am I just out of touch with proper social thinking?

    All the talking heads on TV are momentarily rabid about the NAACP woman in Spokane who turns out to be white-on-white instead of black. That is supposed to be an outrageous deception and she is a person to be shunned, maybe even prosecuted for misrepresentation.

    But Bruce Jenner undergoes surgery and hormone dosages and that is supposed to be progressive, educational and Jenner ought to be universally acknowledged as a woman.

    I don't give a flying fig about either one but the inconsistencies in attitudes seem pretty silly to me.

    You opt to be look and live as black or you opt look and live as a woman, is there a qualitative difference? Either way you haven't changed your dna, so except for the mode you pick to present yourself, you are still biologically the same person you have always been.

  • #2
    I think you're out of touch with proper social thinking.

    You can be born with a gender identity that does not match the gender you were assigned at birth.

    You can't be born with a racial identity that does not match the one you are assigned at birth.

    You can be interested in other cultures and want to fight for minorities rights but that does not mean you are a minority.

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    • #3
      I think it exemplifies inherent contradictions in popular culture and political correctness. It surely depicts social illness.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Flumpy View Post
        You can be born with a gender identity that does not match the gender you were assigned at birth.

        You can't be born with a racial identity that does not match the one you are assigned at birth.

        You can be interested in other cultures and want to fight for minorities rights but that does not mean you are a minority.
        Except, in the matter of race, many of us have a mix of white and black so it isn't as clearcut as looking at mom and dad or at your skin tone. Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard professor and genealogy "expert" is 52% white but certainly identifies as black and wouldn't be mistaken as white.

        At least 4% of white Americans have 1% or more African ancestry. Many of these people live in the south - where the number is closer to 10%.
        Last edited by booond; 06-18-2015, 07:03 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Flumpy View Post
          You can be born with a gender identity that does not match the gender you were assigned at birth.
          You can't be born with a racial identity that does not match the one you are assigned at birth.
          Not so fast! You CAN choose your race identity just as readily as you can choose your gender identity. Jenner was born with everything he needed to be male. All that went 'wrong' was that a single cerebral cortex network was 'haywire'.
          Likewise you can be born with 100% 'white' (sic) genes and 'choose' (both through nature and nurture) to be black.
          I'll bet that this case is the leading edge of a 'movement' to do so, and I have no problem with this either.

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          • #6
            Other than to say this whole thing is preposterous, I don't have any strong feeling about it either way.

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            • #7
              I would suggest Flumpy is wrong. Not about Rachel Dolezal as she is clearly not black in way shape or form, although her desire to want to be black appears genuine.

              I suggest Flumpy is wrong because in the late 1960s, one of my first cousin's "C" was born to white parents who left her for a "few" days with my Aunt (my Dad's sister) and Uncle when she was about 2 months old. The birth white parents never took their daughter back and she was raised by my Aunt and Uncle in a small rural town (population 3,000 of which about 65% was Maori). My Aunt and Uncle are Maori and strongly identified culturally as Maori. They were native speakers of Maori and learnt English when they were sent to primary school. They had 9 other biological children.

              "C" has no Maori genes or celluar DNA.

              But she is "Maori tuturu", that is, she is permanently, forever and always has been a Maori. She has identified as being Maori all of her life. She knows of being nothing else. Her husband is Maori, She lives and breathes Maori culture as it is the culture she has grown up in from 2 months of age and it is still her everyday existence.

              Her more than 100 first cousins (I am from a really big family) and her many hundreds of second cousins (all biologically and genetically Maori) have always considered her to be a Maori.

              Gender identity, as I understand it, is something you are biologically born with. It is part of your DNA genetic make up. And it is what it is. Culture, however, is taught and it is what you grow up with. "C" grew up all of her life culturally as a Maori. Dolzeal did not grow up culturally as a black American. For what ever reason she one decided she wanted to be recognized as a black American. I do not have a theory as to what conclusion can be drawn here, but if Dolzeal has dyed her skin to take on a "black" tinge, how is that any different from say Jenner having breast implants or shaving "his" Adams Apple?

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              • #8
                I tend to agree with Atticus.
                Jenner was apparently born (or at least was aware from an early age) with the feeling that he ought to be a woman.
                The Spokane lady claims the same sort of compulsion about being black.
                What is it that makes her a liar and a fraud while Jenner is perceived as a courageous truth-teller?

                Given the advances and popularity of cosmetic plastic surgery, it seems likely that at some time in the not-too-far-distant future people will be able to pick their own gender and "race" (whatever race means) at will.

                Me, I liked the attitude of a Brazilian guy I met a few years ago who told me that his family was so mixed that no one had a clue what each new baby would look like... could be any skin tone, hair or eye color, facial characteristics, in any combination.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jc203 View Post
                  his family was so mixed that no one had a clue what each new baby would look like... could be any skin tone, hair or eye color, facial characteristics, in any combination.
                  99% of Americans are MUTTS from the get-go, right down to my fair-complected, blonde, blue-eyed children and grandchildren, all of whom have Cherokee blood in them!

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                  • #10
                    Perhaps I am an old cynic, but here goes. RD lied in order to achieve certain career goals. To me it is as simple as that.
                    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                    by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                      Other than to say this whole thing is preposterous, I don't have any strong feeling about it either way.

                      Someone had to say it, Im so glad it wasnt user4 !

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by user4 View Post
                        Someone had to say it, Im so glad it wasnt user4 !
                        Waaalll, being ten foot tall and bullet proof, I can say things like that.

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                        • #13
                          No doubt the whole society is preposterous to our eyes :-)
                          A lot of us have been thinking that for some time now.
                          Given the rate of change socially and technologically, I am just as happy to be an old guy who won't have to adjust to whatever new realities are presented to my kids and grandkids as they try to age as gracefully as Lonewolf has done.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                            99% of Americans are MUTTS from the get-go, right down to my fair-complected, blonde, blue-eyed children and grandchildren, all of whom have Cherokee blood in them!
                            My raven haired, bronze skin Choctaw daughter has two blue eyed, blond sons courtesy of a Swedish heritage husband...they still get tribal perks for grades, etc.

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                            • #15
                              You all know that race is not a scientific concept - it is a social one. Having white or black or other skin is no different than having brown or blue or green eyes, and last I heard blue or brown or green-eyed folks were not individual races.

                              Full disclosure: there is actually one race - the human race. Once folks figure this out it will be better for all . . .
                              Last edited by bad hammy; 06-19-2015, 03:28 AM.

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