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the no-nonsense, nothing-but-the-facts-m'am C19 thread

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  • scottmitchell74
    replied
    Originally posted by gh View Post

    I doubt that people who are accustomed to annual flu shots would think that way
    Ha! Good point. Then I was talking to my wife this morning about childhood vaccines that are given in stages. All helpful food for thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by gh View Post

    I doubt that people who are accustomed to annual flu shots would think that way
    Speaking of flu shots, Moderna is working on a combined flu+Covid booster shot.

    https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...lu-2021-09-09/

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

    .... Also, I think most people think of vaccine/immunity to be either permanent or very long-term. ....
    I doubt that people who are accustomed to annual flu shots would think that way

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
    On a completely unrelated note: is your handle related to the hope/belief back in his prime that Bolt would break 19?
    Yes, I was hoping he'd run 18.99 in the 200m.

    Leave a comment:


  • scottmitchell74
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

    "Fully vaxxed" was about acquiring the full strength of the immunity (to the level observed in the clinical trials), not the duration or permanence of it. The vaccine makers had no published expectation or estimate of long-term immunity, and they said there would be follow-up studies to observe how long the immunity lasts.

    If this virus were of the pox or measles family where immunity is decades to lifelong, there might have been that long-term expectation, but with immunity being short-lived for other viruses in the coronavirus family, there was no basis for that expectation. Perhaps they could have done better messaging to clarify that fully vaccinated doesn't mean long-term or permanent, but they never said it meant anything long-term, although you and others have interpreted it that way.
    I think this is the case. Also, I think most people think of vaccine/immunity to be either permanent or very long-term. You seem really informed on these issues. For various reasons, I doubt most people knew/know what you wrote above. I'm willing to bet, across every possible demographic of race, religion, party, age, income; if you polled people they would overwhelmingly believe "fully vaxxed" to mean "done with that." Not now maybe, but 3-11 months ago. Anyhow...good chatting with you. I'm better for it.

    On a completely unrelated note: is your handle related to the hope/belief back in his prime that Bolt would break 19?

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post

    It's very possible I missed something back then. I don't remember talk of boosters nearly a year ago. If boosters were on the horizon why were you considered fully vaxxed after your second? So that's not unreasonable to think. Everybody, including everyone around here, used the expression "fully vaxxed" when they got their second.
    "Fully vaxxed" was about acquiring the full strength of the immunity (to the level observed in the clinical trials), not the duration or permanence of it. The vaccine makers had no published expectation or estimate of long-term immunity, and they said there would be follow-up studies to observe how long the immunity lasts.

    If this virus were of the pox or measles family where immunity is decades to lifelong, there might have been that long-term expectation, but with immunity being short-lived for other viruses in the coronavirus family, there was no basis for that expectation. Perhaps they could have done better messaging to clarify that fully vaccinated doesn't mean long-term or permanent, but they never said it meant anything long-term, although you and others have interpreted it that way.
    Last edited by 18.99s; 11-21-2021, 06:35 AM.

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  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

    You could remind them that Covid itself can make them unable to perform.

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...men-with-covid



    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...ause-impotence
    I forwarded those articles to my daughter.

    Horrible person that she is, her response was "covid causes ED in men? Wow, what a great thing for us women".

    Leave a comment:


  • scottmitchell74
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

    I was aware of the possibility of boosters from the beginning, given the short run of the clinical trials and nobody was promising long-term immunity.

    What we can hope for is the boosters providing progressively longer durations of immunity ... 6 months, then 1 year, then 2 years and so on. But that can only be observed as it happens; it cannot be reliably predicted at this time.
    It's very possible I missed something back then. I don't remember talk of boosters nearly a year ago. If boosters were on the horizon why were you considered fully vaxxed after your second? So that's not unreasonable to think. Everybody, including everyone around here, used the expression "fully vaxxed" when they got their second. I'm willing to bet almost everyone figured that was it for them. I'm sure I have lots of company in thinking that.

    On your second point: let's hope so. And the second half of your second point is most of my point. Thanks again for your civility and thoughtfulness in the discussion. Others can take note.
    Last edited by scottmitchell74; 11-21-2021, 01:10 AM.

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  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74

    18.99s -Thanks for keeping it civil and thoughtful.

    The first goalpost was: get fully vaxxed! Now you need a booster. So it has moved a bit.
    I was aware of the possibility of boosters from the beginning, given the short run of the clinical trials and nobody was promising long-term immunity.

    What we can hope for is the boosters providing progressively longer durations of immunity ... 6 months, then 1 year, then 2 years and so on. But that can only be observed as it happens; it cannot be reliably predicted at this time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Right....until something better comes out...

    The boosters work are free, work fine, a huge benefit and for almost everyone risk free.... but I'll wait until ....who knows what... that makes sense.

    You were doing so well...vaccinated and now you come up with this medical mumbo jumbo.
    Last edited by Conor Dary; 11-20-2021, 08:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    So do firefighters have a set schedule before they extinguish fire? Or do they keep "moving the goal post" as long as the fire is not extinguished? I am a bit confused.

    Leave a comment:


  • scottmitchell74
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

    What goal posts? The vaccine trials ran for only about 3 months, and the vaccines were released to the public without any promise of effectiveness beyond that duration. And there were always concerns that immunity might be short-lived, given the short-lived immunity to coronaviruses which cause the common cold.

    Suppose the eventual finding is a booster every 6 months for life. That's probably a worst-case scenario. Are you going to stop getting vaxxed because the frequency is too high for your liking?
    @18.99 -Thanks for keeping it civil and thoughtful.

    The first goalpost was: get fully vaxxed! Now you need a booster. So it has moved a bit.

    I don't know yet. But that uncertainty is what I'll be watching, seeing how things get ironed out. Maybe something better comes out?

    I will use the scales in my head - risk/reward and cross the bridge then. Maybe your 6 month scenario will win my mind-scale war? I do the same thing with ibuprofen and kenalog: two drugs that have some risks but greatly improve my quality of life. If every-6-month boosters offer the same reward...then yes.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeremyp
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

    You could remind them that Covid itself can make them unable to perform.

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...men-with-covid



    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...ause-impotence
    Good thing I'm 80!!

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
    Unbelievably a few of the young males in our tribe believe that the Pfizer vaccine will possibly mean their penis won't work in terms of sexual performance.
    You could remind them that Covid itself can make them unable to perform.

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...men-with-covid
    Erectile Dysfunction Risk 6 Times Higher in Men With COVID

    April 7, 2021 -- COVID-19 increases the risk of developing erectile dysfunction (ED) by nearly six times, according to data from the first study to investigate the association between ED and COVID-19 in young men in a real-life setting.

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...ause-impotence
    Coronavirus Lingers in Penis and Could Cause Impotence
    ...
    "We found that the virus affects the blood vessels that supply the penis, causing erectile dysfunction," said senior researcher Dr. Ranjith Ramasamy, director of the reproductive urology program at the University of Miami's Miller School of Medicine. "The blood vessels themselves malfunction and are not able to provide enough blood to enter the penis for an erection."

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
    So, I want to see if it's three-and-done or if the goalposts will keep moving. 🤔🙂🤘
    What goal posts? The vaccine trials ran for only about 3 months, and the vaccines were released to the public without any promise of effectiveness beyond that duration. And there were always concerns that immunity might be short-lived, given the short-lived immunity to coronaviruses which cause the common cold.

    There was some hope that 80-90% of people would get vaccinated and make the virus go away via herd immunity, thereby making the vaccines unnecessary in the long run. But the anti-vaxxers ensured that won't happen, so Covid will be around for a long time.

    Suppose the eventual finding is a booster every 6 months for life. That's probably a worst-case scenario. Are you going to stop getting vaxxed because the frequency is too high for your liking?

    Leave a comment:

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