the no-nonsense, nothing-but-the-facts-m'am C19 thread

[18.99s]

It's very possible I missed something back then. I don't remember talk of boosters nearly a year ago. If boosters were on the horizon why were you considered fully vaxxed after your second? So that's not unreasonable to think. Everybody, including everyone around here, used the expression "fully vaxxed" when they got their second.

"Fully vaxxed" was about acquiring the full strength of the immunity (to the level observed in the clinical trials), not the duration or permanence of it. The vaccine makers had no published expectation or estimate of long-term immunity, and they said there would be follow-up studies to observe how long the immunity lasts.

If this virus were of the pox or measles family where immunity is decades to lifelong, there might have been that long-term expectation, but with immunity being short-lived for other viruses in the coronavirus family, there was no basis for that expectation. Perhaps they could have done better messaging to clarify that fully vaccinated doesn't mean long-term or permanent, but they never said it meant anything long-term, although you and others have interpreted it that way.

[Tuariki]

You could remind them that Covid itself can make them unable to perform.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210407/erectile-dysfunction-risk-6-times-higher-in-men-with-covid

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210513/coronavirus-lingers-in-penis-and-could-cause-impotence

I forwarded those articles to my daughter.

Horrible person that she is, her response was "covid causes ED in men? Wow, what a great thing for us women".

[scottmitchell74]

I was aware of the possibility of boosters from the beginning, given the short run of the clinical trials and nobody was promising long-term immunity.

What we can hope for is the boosters providing progressively longer durations of immunity ... 6 months, then 1 year, then 2 years and so on. But that can only be observed as it happens; it cannot be reliably predicted at this time.

It's very possible I missed something back then. I don't remember talk of boosters nearly a year ago. If boosters were on the horizon why were you considered fully vaxxed after your second? So that's not unreasonable to think. Everybody, including everyone around here, used the expression "fully vaxxed" when they got their second. I'm willing to bet almost everyone figured that was it for them. I'm sure I have lots of company in thinking that.

On your second point: let's hope so. And the second half of your second point is most of my point. Thanks again for your civility and thoughtfulness in the discussion. Others can take note.

[18.99s]

18.99s -Thanks for keeping it civil and thoughtful.

The first goalpost was: get fully vaxxed! Now you need a booster. So it has moved a bit.

I was aware of the possibility of boosters from the beginning, given the short run of the clinical trials and nobody was promising long-term immunity.

What we can hope for is the boosters providing progressively longer durations of immunity ... 6 months, then 1 year, then 2 years and so on. But that can only be observed as it happens; it cannot be reliably predicted at this time.

[Conor Dary]

Right....until something better comes out...

The boosters work are free, work fine, a huge benefit and for almost everyone risk free.... but I'll wait until ....who knows what... that makes sense.

You were doing so well...vaccinated and now you come up with this medical mumbo jumbo.

[TN1965]

So do firefighters have a set schedule before they extinguish fire? Or do they keep "moving the goal post" as long as the fire is not extinguished? I am a bit confused.

[scottmitchell74]

What goal posts? The vaccine trials ran for only about 3 months, and the vaccines were released to the public without any promise of effectiveness beyond that duration. And there were always concerns that immunity might be short-lived, given the short-lived immunity to coronaviruses which cause the common cold.

Suppose the eventual finding is a booster every 6 months for life. That's probably a worst-case scenario. Are you going to stop getting vaxxed because the frequency is too high for your liking?

@18.99 -Thanks for keeping it civil and thoughtful.

The first goalpost was: get fully vaxxed! Now you need a booster. So it has moved a bit.

I don't know yet. But that uncertainty is what I'll be watching, seeing how things get ironed out. Maybe something better comes out?

I will use the scales in my head - risk/reward and cross the bridge then. Maybe your 6 month scenario will win my mind-scale war? I do the same thing with ibuprofen and kenalog: two drugs that have some risks but greatly improve my quality of life. If every-6-month boosters offer the same reward...then yes.

[jeremyp]

You could remind them that Covid itself can make them unable to perform.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210407/erectile-dysfunction-risk-6-times-higher-in-men-with-covid

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210513/coronavirus-lingers-in-penis-and-could-cause-impotence

Good thing I'm 80!!

[18.99s]

Unbelievably a few of the young males in our tribe believe that the Pfizer vaccine will possibly mean their penis won't work in terms of sexual performance.

You could remind them that Covid itself can make them unable to perform.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210407/erectile-dysfunction-risk-6-times-higher-in-men-with-covid

Erectile Dysfunction Risk 6 Times Higher in Men With COVID

April 7, 2021 -- COVID-19 increases the risk of developing erectile dysfunction (ED) by nearly six times, according to data from the first study to investigate the association between ED and COVID-19 in young men in a real-life setting.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210513/coronavirus-lingers-in-penis-and-could-cause-impotence

Coronavirus Lingers in Penis and Could Cause Impotence
...
"We found that the virus affects the blood vessels that supply the penis, causing erectile dysfunction," said senior researcher Dr. Ranjith Ramasamy, director of the reproductive urology program at the University of Miami's Miller School of Medicine. "The blood vessels themselves malfunction and are not able to provide enough blood to enter the penis for an erection."

[18.99s]

So, I want to see if it's three-and-done or if the goalposts will keep moving. 🤔🙂🤘

What goal posts? The vaccine trials ran for only about 3 months, and the vaccines were released to the public without any promise of effectiveness beyond that duration. And there were always concerns that immunity might be short-lived, given the short-lived immunity to coronaviruses which cause the common cold.

There was some hope that 80-90% of people would get vaccinated and make the virus go away via herd immunity, thereby making the vaccines unnecessary in the long run. But the anti-vaxxers ensured that won't happen, so Covid will be around for a long time.

Suppose the eventual finding is a booster every 6 months for life. That's probably a worst-case scenario. Are you going to stop getting vaxxed because the frequency is too high for your liking?

[Django]

I just had my Moderna booster a few days ago, and the only adverse effect was that the day after, I felt sleepy. Of course, at my age, that’s pretty normal!

[Tuariki]

A...

Just shared the graph on my whanau/hapu page (whanau is Maori for family - hapi is Maori for sub-tribe).

Amongst our young we have a few mupp-heads.

Unbelievably a few of the young males in our tribe believe that the Pfizer vaccine will possibly mean their penis won't work in terms of sexual performance. I have tried to convince them that if this was true, all the married women in the country would be dragging their husbands in to get not only a booster shout but a 4th booster shot.

I have also told them that the scientific evidence has shown that the covid vaccines do not affect the performance of Mrs Palmer and her 5 daughters.

[scottmitchell74]

Who cares ....get the booster.

See now, that's exactly the opposite tack that works when people are curious/concerned/hesitant etc...

Makes you seem like a bully...or worse. I bet you don't mindlessly guzzle every med/supplement/ potion experts (or "experts") tout. You read up on it. You ask around. You look at side effects, efficacy, contraindications and so on.

Based on what's happening in Gibraltar - the mosted jabbed and thrice-jabbed nation on earth - I don't think some deeper questioning and hesitancy is unreasonable.

I was hopeful in January when I got mine, I'm less so now.

So, I want to see if it's three-and-done or if the goalposts will keep moving. 🤔🙂🤘

[18.99s]

For how long, though? Boosters haven't been around long. Will they fade as well eventually? I'm currently biding my time for #3.

Antibody levels post-booster have been found to be higher than shortly after the 2nd shot. It would be very surprising if the booster-provided immunity is less than the 6-ish months provided by the original 2-shot regimen. We can hope for more than 6 months to the next booster, but only time will tell.

[Conor Dary]

Who cares ....get the booster.