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Vigilante, stand your ground...murder

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  • #61
    Originally posted by athlete101 View Post
    Why don't you just come out and say what you really want to say.....The favorite go-to lines that people use to support their ignorance...... "But Black people kill Black people too" or "Black people kill eachother more often than White people do"
    Really has nothing to do with this case or white privilege or why it took the authorities over 2 months to arrest these guys due to institutional racism that exists in the police and justice system. But you rather ignore that part and skip straight to the agenda you're trying so hard to promote. It's cool....
    this is a very limited forum and you made a bizarre, strange and false statement, my goal was simply to correct you.

    You are not the only one that is myopically focused on one way racialization of homicide.

    I have a few goals , one of them is to correct false, misleading and inflammatory statements.
    Last edited by user4; 05-10-2020, 07:56 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by gm View Post
      https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...ed-justifiable

      Only a hardheaded fool would dispute the statistics in this study.
      It's not a bad article but it is a very narrow slice of the data and they seem set on focusing only on race . How many such cases are there? What fraction of homicides are like this? What other factors were at play in these homicides ? I'm not convinced from reading this that racism drives even that tiny sliver of homicides.

      If your model of human nature and experience applies to 0.1% of the data, maybe your theory needs updating.
      Last edited by user4; 05-10-2020, 08:11 AM.

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      • #63
        "These two are going to be found guilty of murder." User4

        I agree and I hope that this will lead to an overhaul of the SYG laws, which I believe 34 states have some variation of.

        I wonder how many of these SYG cases involved a woman shooting another woman?

        I appreciate all the comments here and I think this case will continue to be covered through the trial.
        I walked 2.23 miles on Sat. to mark the date Ahmaud was murdered on the street while taking his exercise of running.

        signing off for now, stay safe!
        DJG

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        • #64
          Interesting piece here: https://www.outsideonline.com/241311...ning-community

          Headline and sub-head:

          Ahmaud Arbery and Whiteness in the Running World

          The response to Arbery's murder highlighted what I already knew: the running world is deeply divided by race, and we must address it


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          • #65
            I don't believe that what happened to Arbery should be mired in the statistics of who murders whom by race. I think this case falls into what might be broadly characterized as "lynchings."

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            • #66
              Originally posted by DJG View Post
              "These two are going to be found guilty of murder." User4

              I agree and I hope that this will lead to an overhaul of the SYG laws, which I believe 34 states have some variation of.

              I wonder how many of these SYG cases involved a woman shooting another woman?

              I appreciate all the comments here and I think this case will continue to be covered through the trial.
              I walked 2.23 miles on Sat. to mark the date Ahmaud was murdered on the street while taking his exercise of running.

              signing off for now, stay safe!
              DJG
              The chances of any revision of any states SYG laws are near zero IMHO. There's too much influence from one particular lobbying group which ensures that. I'm sure that group is already heavily involved in the Arbery case.

              I'm also already tired of reading that the guy was in a house under construction prior to the chase and shooting. He doesn't appear to be doing anything nefarious in his actions. If that were a problem, I'd have been tried and convicted long ago as when the two houses I've built during my lifetime were being built, I was in most models which were not the same as mine when they were anywhere from concrete slabs, through shells to nearly complete.

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              • #67
                Federal prosecutors weigh hate crime charges in Arbery death

                https://apnews.com/bf3e7527a0d90cdd4d1b99cbfd99af99

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                • #68
                  OPINION: Ahmaud Arbery death | When a modern-day posse ends in tragedy

                  ...
                  J. Tom Morgan, former DeKalb County district attorney, said, “I cannot start an incident and escalate it to defend myself.” If you are trying to make a citizen’s arrest, the crime must have been committed in your presence, he said.

                  Morgan, who is now a law professor, trotted out a 1920 Georgia Supreme Court case that explored issues eerily similar to this: citizens’ arrest and self-defense. That case concerned two private citizens convicted of murder for shooting a man they thought, wrongly, was involved in an aggravated assault.

                  ...

                  https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opini...0V4GTlY1h8bKP/

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by KDFINE View Post
                    I don't believe that what happened to Arbery should be mired in the statistics of who murders whom by race. I think this case falls into what might be broadly characterized as "lynchings."
                    That is what the Atlanta mayor and others have called it. Certainly, in the Deep South there is an argument to be made that this is another lynching case.

                    Atlanta mayor calls Ahmaud Arbery's death a 'lynching of an African American man'

                    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/10/polit...ntv/index.html

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by DJG View Post
                      "These two are going to be found guilty of murder." User4
                      I agree and I hope that this will lead to an overhaul of the SYG laws, which I believe 34 states have some variation of.

                      I appreciate all the comments here and I think this case will continue to be covered through the trial.
                      I walked 2.23 miles on Sat. to mark the date Ahmaud was murdered on the street while taking his exercise of running.DJG
                      Greatly appreciate DJGs care and concern over this death. It is a very disturbing murder. However I would caution the conflation of Ahmaud's murder with a justification from any "stand your ground" (SYG) law.

                      In fact this case is going to prove Arbery's death was indeed murder and SYG is likely to be part of the case against these armed thugs. This will put the defense in a check mate regarding Arbery's aggressive response to the murderous thugs confronting and cornering him on a public way for no lawful reason. He had every right to stand his ground. Without an effective "stand your ground" law or a common law sense understanding of the same the defense can and will argue that by wrestling over the gun Arbery "attacked" his murderers. With a lawful right to defend oneself against an assailant Arbery will be seen by the jury as acting rightfully. These thugs are going away for a long long time.

                      It is also important to realize the history of SYG laws, they were enacted as a response to countless muggings, assaults and robberies where ordinary citizens were treated like animals to be plundered by thugs and murderers. If you dont appreciate the cause of SYG laws, it might be because you live in an area where you are never subjected to assaults and muggings. Even without an explicit SYG law there will always be a sense of what is reasonable for a citizen to defend themselves. SYG is going to be part of the prosecution's case against these thugs.

                      Conflating the death of this man with unwarranted issues with SYG laws is counterproductive.
                      Last edited by user4; 05-12-2020, 09:45 PM.

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                      • #71
                        “I cannot start an incident and escalate it to defend myself”. Which was exactly what happened when mr. Zimmerman stalked and killed Trayvon Martin.

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                        • #72
                          Just in case there is confusion on this, George Zimmerman did not invoke Stand Your Ground. He used a standard self defense argument which is common to almost all states. I suspect, ultimately, that this will be the case in the current Georgia case and there was no "retreating" on the shooters part available and self defense is triggered more by imminent danger of death.

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                          • #73
                            The chap who filmed the shooting has been arrested and charged with felony murder along with attempted false imprisonment.

                            https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ested-n1212496

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                              The chap who filmed the shooting has been arrested and charged with felony murder along with attempted false imprisonment.

                              https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ested-n1212496
                              My question is if the DA who did not prosecute will be charged with some sort of aiding and abetting(not a lawyer and not trying to be precise here.)?

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                                They won't be and there is a pretty strong lobby from a national outfit which will make sure they won't be.
                                The right to own and keep arms does not grant you or anyone the right to confront and impede unarmed citizens on public ways. Your understanding of the 2nd amendment and the NRA is sophomoric.

                                Also the title of the thread is misleading on a number of issues, not only "stand your ground" but also the idea of a "vigilante". To the best of my knowledge there is no physical evidence at all that Arbery committed a crime and was being pursued for that reason. There has been no evidence that he had assaulted anyone. If there were I would be willing to discuss the video in that light but so far his murderers do not deserve to be called "vigilantes", they are felonious criminals of the worst kind, with no regard for human life.
                                Last edited by user4; 05-22-2020, 04:43 PM.

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