Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hydroxychloroquine

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    With this drug, I don't think there will be a trial of any size or rigour that will ever convince its proponents that it doesn't work. It's no longer a scientific question, it's a personal political question.

    I will note that this whole "happening" is increasingly bizarre to me because the normal progression of evidence is the opposite of what normally happens with a drug treatment.

    There is usually a strong positive signal in small scale and/or retrospective, badly conducted studies that excites everybody. This excitement leads to studies getting bigger and better structured and still providing a positive signal creating enough excitement and cash to conduct a properly sized, constructed and analysed RCT - only for the positive signal to disapper into the aether.

    This drug is the opposite, with neutral or negative signals in multiple studies of increasing scale, where people are now pinning their hopes on an RCT to miraculously discover a significsant hidden positive signal and annoint it as the miracle cure?

    Stranger things have happened and I'm keeping an open mind, but not (as a wise man said) so open that my brains fall out.

    Comment


    • #92
      I don't quite get the consistent re-visiting this drug as a treatment, preventative measure, or just to take with coffee in the morning. Every time I think we're out....we get pulled back in. Talk disappears for a week or more and then it pops up again. Maybe I do know the reason.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by El Toro View Post
        With this drug, I don't think there will be a trial of any size or rigour that will ever convince its proponents that it doesn't work. It's no longer a scientific question, it's a personal political question.

        I will note that this whole "happening" is increasingly bizarre to me because the normal progression of evidence is the opposite of what normally happens with a drug treatment.

        There is usually a strong positive signal in small scale and/or retrospective, badly conducted studies that excites everybody. This excitement leads to studies getting bigger and better structured and still providing a positive signal creating enough excitement and cash to conduct a properly sized, constructed and analysed RCT - only for the positive signal to disapper into the aether.

        This drug is the opposite, with neutral or negative signals in multiple studies of increasing scale, where people are now pinning their hopes on an RCT to miraculously discover a significsant hidden positive signal and annoint it as the miracle cure?

        Stranger things have happened and I'm keeping an open mind, but not (as a wise man said) so open that my brains fall out.
        Indeed.....I thought it was over ...and then...

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

        Comment


        • #94
          Meanwhile....in the Financial Times today...

          Brazil scientists face death threats in clash over use of antimalarial drugs

          Followers of Bolsonaro target experts who question efficacy of hydroxychloroquine

          When Brazilian infectologist Marcus Lacerda published research questioning the efficacy of the antimalarial drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine on patients infected with the novel coronavirus, he received death threats from followers of President Jair Bolsonaro.

          “People were saying that they were going to kill me, that they were going to kill my family so I would know what it was like to lose someone,” said Mr Lacerda, a former president of the Brazilian Society of Tropical Medicine.

          “Because Bolsonaro said the drug worked, people started to defend the drug to defend the president. It became totally a political issue.”



          Comment


          • #95
            U.S. sends Brazil 2 million doses of hydroxychloroquine, drug touted by Trump

            https://news.yahoo.com/u-sends-brazi...213449276.html

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
              U.S. sends Brazil 2 million doses of hydroxychloroquine, drug touted by Trump

              https://news.yahoo.com/u-sends-brazi...213449276.html
              I can't imagine that a purchase of this volume by Brazil is not with Malaria in mind.

              https://images.app.goo.gl/1xbqtAVyCHG4sde36

              Comment


              • #97
                Some major problems with HCQ study that sparked all the concern about its use, and another paper by the same group - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...-be-unraveling

                The most damning thing in here is that the statistics they used in the HCQ study for Australia contained more patients in Australia than actually had COVID19

                Comment


                • #98
                  Headline: No Evidence Hydroxychloroquine Is Helpful In Preventing COVID-19, Study Finds

                  Taking hydroxychloroquine after being exposed to someone with COVID-19 does not protect someone from getting the disease.

                  That's the conclusion of a study published Wednesday involving 821 participants. All had direct exposure to a COVID-19 patient, either because they lived with one, or were a health care provider or first responder.
                  https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...19-study-finds

                  Comment


                  • #99

                    This week @KellyServick
                    and I delved into what could well become the first big scientific scandal of this pandemic. Here’s a quick summary. 1/n

                    https://mobile.twitter.com/martinens...13912005906432

                    Comment


                    • Meanwhile.....

                      Hydroxychloroquine failed to prevent healthy people from getting covid-19 in trial

                      Hydroxychloroquine did not prevent healthy people exposed to covid-19 from getting the disease caused by the coronavirus, according to a study being published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

                      The study is the first randomized clinical trial that tested the antimalarial drug as a preventive measure, according to researchers at the University of Minnesota Medical School who conducted the trial. It showed that hydroxychloroquine, which has been touted by President Trump, was no more effective than a placebo — in this case, a vitamin — in protecting people exposed to covid-19.

                      “As we say in Tennessee, ‘that dog won’t hunt’ — it didn’t work,” said William Schaffner, a professor of preventive medicine and infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Schaffner, who was not involved in the trial, praised it as “rigorously done.”


                      Jeanne Marrazzo, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, said the results “should provide a very big nail in the coffin” for the idea that hydroxychloroquine can help prevent covid-19.

                      https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...trial-results/

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by El Toro View Post
                        We are still waiting on outcomes from high quality, large scale, randomised control trials that are currently being undertaken. These are the gold standard, so I'm keeping my mind open. However, I will note that to have no encouraging outcomes at all across multiple trials in multiple locations seems unusual when it was originally promoted as a "cure" by Raoult.
                        Well, what an amazing week on the HCQ front.

                        As some of you may have read, two large scale observational studies that did not support use of HCQ have been withdrawn from the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) and The Lancet by the lead authors. The scale and speed of the withdrawal are unprecedented but these are unprecedented times, I suppose.

                        Both studies used data from a company called Surgisphere that had collated and harmonised data from hundreds of hospitals around the world, or so they said. However, major concerns were raised about the accuracy or even existence of the data. Surgisphere refused to provide access to the source data or participate in an audit process, leading to the withdrawals.

                        Read about how it happened, here in The Guardian online

                        Unfortunately, the safety issues raised by the studies had caused the WHO to halt the HCQ arm of their worldwide randomised control trials (the Recovery trial) being used to test a range of therapies. Subsequent to the withdrawals, existing Recovery data was reviewed in order to determine a way forward. The result from this, the first large scale, well run RCT was unambiguous:

                        “If you are admitted to hospital, don’t take hydroxychloroquine,” said Martin Landray, deputy chief investigator of the Recovery trial and professor of medicine and epidemiology at Oxford University. “It doesn’t work.”
                        Peter Horby, professor of emerging infectious diseases and global health at the University of Oxford, had to reinforce the obvious with regard to observational studies compared to RCT:

                        One of the key lessons we should learn historically is that making treatment decisions based on observational data is not the way forward
                        Read in more detail, again The Guardian online.

                        Comment


                        • Don't feel bad, every field of inquiry goes through these surges of interest in some hot topic, the herd of researchers rush to meet the demand and regrettably sometimes even a desired result in order to reap a harvest of citations. As scientists we need to constantly remind ourselves that we provide sound methods and those methods lead to results, we should be excited and energized by our methods, the results are simply the by-product. We should never go into a study with the intent to produce a certain result.. however sure we are of that result.

                          Comment


                          • Meanwhile.... the saga may be nearing an end....

                            Study: Hydroxychloroquine had no benefit for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, possibly closing door to use of drug

                            https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/...o-use-of-drug/

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                              Meanwhile.... the saga may be nearing an end....
                              ...or not...

                              https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...d-yet-n1224586

                              Not all researchers have given up on the drug, however, and recent developments show it is not yet dead as a potential weapon against COVID-19, especially as a preventative in people not yet exposed to the virus.

                              Comment


                              • There will always be holdouts....hydroxychloroquine’s time has passed....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X