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US Elite Female Vaulters Speak Out RE: Confederate Flag

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  • US Elite Female Vaulters Speak Out RE: Confederate Flag

    The original posts by the athletes were in their Instagram stories, which are now long gone, but I reposted a bunch of them here: https://twitter.com/polevaultpower/s...200078336?s=20

    Sandi Morris has taken the time to write out her thoughts here: https://vaulthigh.tumblr.com/

  • #2
    Welcome back to 1950.

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    • #3
      Embarrassing, disappointing, disgusting, but sadly, not surprising.

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      • #4
        Well done to these women for speaking out.

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        • #5
          The pole vault is indeed the whitest event in American track and field. Some people want to keep it that way.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
            The pole vault is indeed the whitest event in American track and field. Some people want to keep it that way.
            I don't think too many pole vault people consciously feel that way, I think they have a hard time connecting the dots between their actions and why the event is so white.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by polevaultpower View Post
              I don't think too many pole vault people consciously feel that way, I think they have a hard time connecting the dots between their actions and why the event is so white.
              Which is what the Black Lives Matter movement is trying to change. The vast majority of whites are not overtly racist; they are just not anti-racist. They allow pernicious non-overt racism to exist, mostly because they can't feel what Blacks (any opp/sup/re-pressed minority) feel. Empathy is the answer, but we seem to be in short supply and have been for quite a while.
              If everyone though what Sandi Morris is thinking - I have to stop being tacitly complicit in this, even if people think I should mind my own business. This IS our business.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                Which is what the Black Lives Matter movement is trying to change. The vast majority of whites are not overtly racist; they are just not anti-racist. They allow pernicious non-overt racism to exist, mostly because they can't feel what Blacks (any opp/sup/re-pressed minority) feel. Empathy is the answer, but we seem to be in short supply and have been for quite a while.
                If everyone though what Sandi Morris is thinking - I have to stop being tacitly complicit in this, even if people think I should mind my own business. This IS our business.
                BLM is trying to change more than just that.

                The vast majority of whites are not racist - period. "Allow pernicious non-overt racism to exist" How do you not allow it? If someone wants to be a closet racist, without overtly being so, they have the freedom and right to hold such thoughts - do they not?

                You say whites CAN'T feel what blacks feel yet say that Empathy is the answer. IF they CAN'T feel they can't have empathy.

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                • #9
                  political commentary removed by mods
                  Last edited by gh; 09-15-2020, 10:27 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post
                    a. The vast majority of whites are not racist - period. [
                    b. You say whites CAN'T feel what blacks feel yet say that Empathy is the answer. IF they CAN'T feel they can't have empathy.
                    a. Simply not true. Psychological research shows that Implicit Bias is present in everyone, from infancy up. When pictures are flashed on a screen and we are asked to assign a positive or negative value to it, pictures of people NOT like us cause a small, but consistently perceptible hesitation in assigning a positive value. We are all racist. The question is, what are we going to do about it? Most people are uncomfortable with their racism, so try to ignore it, which leads to real Racism, the kind that is materially detrimental.
                    b. There actually ARE ways to increase one's empathy, but it HURTS, so we tend to avoid it. We are constantly bombarded by evidence of injustice, and we become numb to it. 'Not my problem.'

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                      a. Simply not true. Psychological research shows that Implicit Bias is present in everyone, from infancy up. When pictures are flashed on a screen and we are asked to assign a positive or negative value to it, pictures of people NOT like us cause a small, but consistently perceptible hesitation in assigning a positive value. We are all racist. The question is, what are we going to do about it? Most people are uncomfortable with their racism, so try to ignore it, which leads to real Racism, the kind that is materially detrimental.
                      Bias is not the same a racism. Of course we all are bias, prejudice, tribal, etc. Most people are bias along more important lines like politics, religion, culture, language, etc. And even if someone (say a child choosing their preferred skin tone) is not racist per-se. It simply can be and most likely is one of familiarity based upon family and culture relations.

                      Preferring ones race more positively, to others, is not equivalent to racism.

                      Your nuances are not scientific at all - racism, real Racism, overt racism, non-overt racism, pernicious non-overt racism, etc. Those studies are also questionable.

                      b. There actually ARE ways to increase one's empathy, but it HURTS, so we tend to avoid it. We are constantly bombarded by evidence of injustice, and we become numb to it. 'Not my problem.'
                      My point was simply that if one CANNOT feel for what another race is feeling/going through then the answer cannot be Empathy - whether it can be increased or not.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post
                        The vast majority of whites are not racist - period. "Allow pernicious non-overt racism to exist" How do you not allow it? If someone wants to be a closet racist, without overtly being so, they have the freedom and right to hold such thoughts - do they not?
                        Non-overt doesn't mean entirely contained within one's thoughts and without consequence. Racism can be inferred in various situations where it's not overt.

                        For example, suppose a hotel manager lies and tells a black couple the hotel is full and overbooked when they show up to check in, even though they properly made a reservation.

                        That's not overtly racist; the manager didn't use any racial slurs or state any policy against black people. But then the black couple's white friends are allowed to check in 1 minute after the black couple walked back to their car, and then both couples can infer the racism after talking to each other later.

                        Or suppose an agent at the airline check-in counter tells a black person standing in the first class line that they're in the wrong line and should go over to the economy line, even though the black person actually has a first class ticket (which the agent hasn't seen yet).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
                          Non-overt doesn't mean entirely contained within one's thoughts and without consequence. Racism can be inferred in various situations where it's not overt.

                          For example, suppose a hotel manager lies and tells a black couple the hotel is full and overbooked when they show up to check in, even though they properly made a reservation.

                          That's not overtly racist; the manager didn't use any racial slurs or state any policy against black people. But then the black couple's white friends are allowed to check in 1 minute after the black couple walked back to their car, and then both couples can infer the racism after talking to each other later.

                          Or suppose an agent at the airline check-in counter tells a black person standing in the first class line that they're in the wrong line and should go over to the economy line, even though the black person actually has a first class ticket (which the agent hasn't seen yet).
                          I agree, but in my view that is overt (actions) but not necessarily explicit. Although a careful examine of the facts and circumstances clearly make it to be racism.

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                          • #14
                            An Article on implicit bias:

                            https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room...scious-racist/

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post
                              To be blunt, that author drew the exact opposite conclusion that she should have. If we blow off our implicit biases, we excuse ourselves from thinking we're racist. We all know people that are in complete denial of their racism, and would never do anything overtly racist, but are definitely part of the problem. If we confront our biases, we will begin to notice what disadvanted people see all the time, the ways they are not treated as the 'privileged' ones are.

                              As for 'learning' empathy, we certainly can. Put people in disadvantaged situations and see how they like it.

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