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Mboma (18yrs) - 48.54 (withdrawn from 400 in Tokyo?

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  • Originally posted by polevaultpower View Post
    One important thing to remember is that only _certain_ DSDs are restricted. Is it possible she has a DSD that is not on that list? She definitely does not have as masculine of a build as Semenya, and her voice is not as deep.
    Dutee Chand does not have masculine build or deep voice, but she would not be able to compete in 400m without lowering the testosterone level. (She used to be on India's 4x4 relay team.)
    I think Chand's condition is different from Semenya's (5-ard), but should be one of the other restricted categories.

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    • On another note, the path to Gold in the 400m is Clear for Miller Uibo. I know what id be going bed tonight thinking if i were her. Lets do the double as no one is getting close to me in the 400m. A cool 51/52. in the heats and i doubt thats alot of energy exerted.
      Apparently Ignorance is bliss

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      • Originally posted by polevaultpower View Post

        For athletes with certain DSD conditions, the 200 and 5000 are not restricted events, it is only the distances in between.

        I'm sure the 200 will be restricted next year, now that World Athletics has data on these athletes, but they will be free to run unfettered in Tokyo in the 200.

        FWIW, I believe the 3000 Steeplechase is not restricted also.

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        • Originally posted by moreover View Post
          In one week, the womens 400 in Tokyo has gone from world record watch to anyone who breaks 50 in the final might medal.
          There's always Z├╝rich. That might be the place where Koch's WR goes down, especially if Mu chooses to run it. Of course, if she gets closer to the 800 WR in Tokyo than Jelimo did in all of 2008 (she ended that season with 1:54.01), she might stick with the 800.

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          • Originally posted by Powell View Post

            She might have got tested for PEDs, including testosterone, but to determine she was DSD and not on drugs, WA must have taken some additional steps.
            DNA profiling and measuring the testosterone level is done as a routine part of drug testing. That's how they obtained the T-level and chromosome data from thousands of athletes for the study that was presented to CAS.

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            • Originally posted by polevaultpower View Post
              It is also messy, because why was she allowed to compete this whole time? If her testosterone levels were high in April, IMO she should have been provisionally suspended while it was sorted out.
              The socio-political sensitivity of the issue deters them from swiftly suspending an athlete like what would be done for a positive drug test. Gotta have the lawyers lined up writing and filing everything perfectly to avoid another multi-year court battle.

              For at least the next few years, it's always going to be the case that DSD athletes will be allowed to continue competing in any event they want for 2-4 months after their condition is discovered, unless their nation's federation takes the initiative to stop them sooner.

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              • Originally posted by 18.99s View Post

                The socio-political sensitivity of the issue deters them from swiftly suspending an athlete like what would be done for a positive drug test. Gotta have the lawyers lined up writing and filing everything perfectly to avoid another multi-year court battle.

                For at least the next few years, it's always going to be the case that DSD athletes will be allowed to continue competing in any event they want for 2-4 months after their condition is discovered, unless their nation's federation takes the initiative to stop them sooner.
                2-4 months? So are you saying that if Mboma's DSD wouldn't have been discovered until today, that she would have been allowed to compete in the Olympics?

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                • I'm not surprised the AIU haven't been able to get on top of this sooner; back in April the pandemic was even worse, travel restrictions were tougher, and even just getting into Namibia would have been a problem. Her 49.24 would have put her on their radar after that, and it may still not have been until she got to Europe that they were able to start fully doing the additional testing they needed to do. (and as stated, the DSD event ban isn't just about testosterone levels, it's about sensitivity and other elements).

                  There's also a possibility that World Athletics have withdrawn her on assumptions and some initial findings and they need to do further tests. Doubtful but plausible.

                  Finally, there have been a number of announcements from the AIU over the last two weeks. There has obviously been a push to get as much 'done' as possible before Tokyo.

                  The sad fact is, as hardcore fans, we know the history of the sport, we understand times, we understand how athletes normally and should run a race, we understand splits we understand what elite women should be able to do. We also have our own inbuilt perceptions of sex and gender, based on how our brains work but also society. I think many people saw this coming, and it's a real shame it came to this and couldn't have been dealt with sooner, more discreetly, and less publicly and PVP states.

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                  • Well doesn't this suck. Thought I'd FINALLY see the day Koch's "world record" would go.

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                    • A lot of conjecture here. Has WA made a statement on this?

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                      • Originally posted by nztrackfan View Post
                        A lot of conjecture here. Has WA made a statement on this?
                        The Namibian Olympic Committee has:

                        namibia.jpg

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                        • No, but the Namibian Federation just have:

                          Apparently WA sent medical personnel to conduct medical assessments to their current training camp in Italy. "the results from the testing centre indicated that both athletes have a natural high testosterone level."

                          They went on to say "it is important to understand that both our athletes were not aware of this condition, neither did (sic) any family member, their coach or the NNOC-CGA were aware of it"

                          So, it was recent, it looks like preliminary testing, and it is to do with high testosterone. Presumably they will now do further testing, but for now, they are definitely out of the 400m.

                          Edit: Vault emort beat me to it!

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                          • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                            They went on to say "it is important to understand that both our athletes were not aware of this condition, neither did (sic) any family member, their coach or the NNOC-CGA were aware of it"
                            I can just believe that of the first two but everybody else after that is a wilfully ignorant fuckwith, at best.

                            Any public embarrassment of these two unfortunate athletes lies solely at their feet, no ifs, not buts, no maybes, its just grotesque cruelty towards these athletes.

                            Clearly, WA needs rules to ensure rapid improvement and performance at this level are reportable by national federations immediately because they are clearly too stupid to work it out themselves.



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                            • Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

                              They went on to say "it is important to understand that both our athletes were not aware of this condition, neither did (sic) any family member, their coach or the NNOC-CGA were aware of it"
                              The athletes might not have been, but as for their coach, what are the odds of him coming across TWO such athletes just by accident in a small-population country? You have to wonder whether he wasn't looking for certain characteristics in girls he recruited.
                              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                              • Namibian Committee indeed fairly clueless or willfuly ignorant, in particular since they must have been aware of what had happened with Semenya in their big neighbor South Africa.
                                Notice that they also write that they're still eligible to compete in the 100, which they're not (check the road to Tokyo list on WA website)

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