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Mboma (18yrs) - 48.54 (withdrawn from 400 in Tokyo?

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  • Originally posted by mungo man View Post

    Semenya is making more money now from endorsements because she is now seen as a hero fighting imperialism and injustice.
    Shame she couldn't pay all her own legal appeal bills then and relied on money from the RSA organisations and the government. Shame that money didn't go to providing healthcare, education, water security etc to the needy people of her country instead of feathering the nests of lawyers around the world.

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    • Originally posted by uakari View Post
      sorry i wasn’t very clear. what i meant was ... they might have “male” levels of testosterone but the body cannot make use of it. i mean, i can see how the physiques of both young namibians differ markedly from those of semenya and seyni.
      It would be helpful to post some links regarding the person you are talking about to assist the conversation.

      Maria José Martínez-Patiño had Androgen Insensitivty Syndrome (AIS). That is, she had male levels of testosterone but her body couldn't use it, so she got no advantage from her natural testosterone and she would have got no advantage from doping with testosterone like a normal female would. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_...ez-Pati%C3%B1o

      These women can now compete once their AIS is established.

      You don't get male levels of performance from AIS individuals unless they are a super amazing genetic freak, so it's very, very, unlikely, though theoretically not impossible, for the Namibians to have AIS.

      Maria José Martínez-Patiño is not to be confused with her namesake, Maria Patiño, who is a journalist with no public acknowledgement of her testosterone levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Pati%C3%B1o

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      • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
        She is indeed an underdog fighting 'the system' (a system trying to protect other women in sport), but 'imperialism and injustice' is a huge stretch.
        It doesn't matter whether its a huge stretch. Its what people believe. Go look at Semenya related discussions on social media and you will realize that most people especially those who don't follow the sport see her as a beacon of freedom fighting injustice. People can't grasp why Laurel Hubbard is allowed at the Olympics and Semenya is not there. Heck most non-fans out there don't understand why Michael Phelps is allowed to swim and Semenya is not. You know the reason. But the vast majority of people don't. Remember that out there, hardly anyone actually follows this sport. So the IAAF is doing itself a huge disfavor by not addressing these issues appropriately.

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        • Originally posted by gh View Post

          methinks you have a very skewed impression on how much compensation is out there... "big money" is definitely not a part of the non-DL meets.
          The money they have made from sponsorships and well wishers and the money they are set to make in the future goes a long way in Namibia.

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          • Originally posted by mungo man View Post

            It doesn't matter whether its a huge stretch. Its what people believe. Go look at Semenya related discussions on social media and you will realize that most people especially those who don't follow the sport see her as a beacon of freedom fighting injustice. People can't grasp why Laurel Hubbard is allowed at the Olympics and Semenya is not there. Heck most non-fans out there don't understand why Michael Phelps is allowed to swim and Semenya is not. You know the reason. But the vast majority of people don't. Remember that out there, hardly anyone actually follows this sport. So the IAAF is doing itself a huge disfavor by not addressing these issues appropriately.
            Yeah, just put the dumb women in the ring against a Mike Tyson standard man and watch them say, "But that's not fair!!!" Mike says, "but I'm a beacon for freedom fighting injustice because I am now a woman."

            We all know the desire for "justice" will end at that point, because, well, that's what people will believe when the reality is shoved in their face.

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            • Originally posted by mungo man View Post
              It doesn't matter whether its a huge stretch. Its what people believe. Go look at Semenya related discussions on social media and you will realize that most people especially those who don't follow the sport see her as a beacon of freedom fighting injustice.
              The 'most' people you cite are her followers. Injustice is in the eyes of those who feel the game is rigged against them; they are rarely 'at fault'. Plus, I can't see 'imperialism' at play here at all, unless the word has morphed into something else.
              I have tremendous empathy for her. She was born a woman in the most accepted obvious sense, yet she is not allowed to compete as one. On the other hand, I have even more empathy for the thousands of women who would like to compete against other women, as biological science defines it.
              My heart is on her side; my head, the other.

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              • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                My heart is on her side; my head, the other.
                And there you have it.

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                • Good news from the Bahamas - SMU will contest both the 200 and 400.

                  http://www.tribune242.com/news/2021/...ic-team-named/

                  or, at least, is entered in both.

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                  • Originally posted by El Toro View Post

                    It would be helpful to post some links regarding the person you are talking about to assist the conversation.

                    Maria José Martínez-Patiño had Androgen Insensitivty Syndrome (AIS). That is, she had male levels of testosterone but her body couldn't use it, so she got no advantage from her natural testosterone and she would have got no advantage from doping with testosterone like a normal female would. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_...ez-Pati%C3%B1o

                    These women can now compete once their AIS is established.

                    You don't get male levels of performance from AIS individuals unless they are a super amazing genetic freak, so it's very, very, unlikely, though theoretically not impossible, for the Namibians to have AIS.

                    Maria José Martínez-Patiño is not to be confused with her namesake, Maria Patiño, who is a journalist with no public acknowledgement of her testosterone levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Pati%C3%B1o
                    Maria Jose Martinez Patino has Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS). People like her are allowed to compete without any restrictions.

                    Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia

                    If what "moreover: wrote above is accurate, Chand has Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (PAIS). As the name suggests, this means one's body partially responds to androgen. A person with PAIS may have a very feminine phenotype, or a very masculine one, depending on how much their body responds to androgen. Some look very similar to people with CAIS, others look more masculine than people with 5-ARD.

                    Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia

                    Semenya, Nioyonsaba and Wambui all have 5-ARD. The difference between people with AIS and 5-ARD is that the latter develops masculine phenotype.

                    5α-Reductase deficiency - Wikipedia

                    We don't know which type of DSD Mboma and Masillingi have, but at least it's not CAIS. If they had CAIS, they would be allowed to compete in 400m.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                      The 'most' people you cite are her followers. Injustice is in the eyes of those who feel the game is rigged against them; they are rarely 'at fault'. Plus, I can't see 'imperialism' at play here at all, unless the word has morphed into something else.
                      I have tremendous empathy for her. She was born a woman in the most accepted obvious sense, yet she is not allowed to compete as one. On the other hand, I have even more empathy for the thousands of women who would like to compete against other women, as biological science defines it.
                      My heart is on her side; my head, the other.
                      Both Hubbard and Semenya are from former colonies. But Hubbard is a descendant of colonizers, while Semenya is a descendant of colonized.

                      That's where "imperialism" comes in. (Not that agree with wokes, in case you wonder.)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TN1965 View Post
                        Both Hubbard and Semenya are from former colonies. But Hubbard is a descendant of colonizers, while Semenya is a descendant of colonized.
                        That's where "imperialism" comes in. (Not that agree with wokes, in case you wonder.)
                        Yes, I understand the word 'imperialism'. America was a colony too. I don't see how that works into her narrative.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                          Yes, I understand the word 'imperialism'. America was a colony too. I don't see how that works into her narrative.
                          Maybe you are one of those people who thinks the truth always wins out or that facts matter. You don't seem to understand how the world works in 2021 with all the lies half truths and fake news available in the media especially social media. Again it doesn't matter what your definition of imperialism is. These are the kind of words thrown around by people advocating for DSD athletes to run in the women's category. And they are very effective in swaying public opinion. And this applies to every country. No country is immune to this. Truth is now relative. Your truth is different from your neighbor's truth. Most people no matter how intelligent, are too busy to do any research and educate themselves on an issue. So using slogans like "imperialism" which are detested is very effective.
                          Last edited by mungo man; 07-03-2021, 07:03 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mungo man View Post

                            Maybe you are one of those people who thinks the truth always wins out or that facts matter. You don't seem to understand how the world works in 2021 with all the lies half truths and fake news available in the media especially social media. Again it doesn't matter what your definition of imperialism is. These are the kind of words thrown around by people advocating for DSD athletes to run in the women's category. And they are very effective in swaying public opinion. And this applies to every country. No country is immune to this. Truth is now relative. Your truth is different from your neighbor's truth. Most people no matter how intelligent, are too busy to do any research and educate themselves on an issue. So using slogans like "imperialism" which are detested is very effective.
                            If that's the case then the adults in the room need to quit bowing to social media pressure. Few things bother me more than when feeble commissioners, CEOs, etc...give into the online feelings mob. Stop apologizing! Stop capitulating!
                            You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                              The 'most' people you cite are her followers.
                              Inaccurate again. There is an entire movement of activists who advocate for these issues, 90 percent of whom don't follow sports are not Semenya fans, don't know the 1st thing about track, don't bother watching the Olympics, but dedicate their lives to pushing for "inclusivity" and inclusion issues. Go on any social media platform and see for yourselves. Most of them know absolutely nothing about the athlete or the sport. They are activists for these kind of related issues.

                              Comment


                              • As an example, when IOC adjusted their rules around trans athletes to be more inclusive in 2015, the decision was taken due to intense pressure and lobbying from the relevant lobby groups. Athletes were not consulted and it appears no medical professionals were consulted. How else can we have a boxing match between people who biologically fit in different categories. These lobby groups are very effective. And they have an army of lawyers to challenge rulings.

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